Revelations from Patch 4.3

[Cilia]

To me, the MSQ was like watching a Shakespear tragedy but also the desacralization of the warrior of light.

After some time to mull it over, I came to a very different conclusion surrounding Yotsuyu's actions during 4.3. It's still very tragic - perhaps moreso than your interpretation - but a bit more hopeful, I think.

Yotsuyu never really came back. The "Yotsuyu" we see is, for the most part, Tsuyu playing Yotsuyu.

We know she regained her memories in Namai and when confronted with her parents. After delivering the persimmon Gosetsu wanted to him, she nearly commits suicide out of guilt for her past actions and feeling unworthy of Gosetsu and the others' kindness and mercy. She's then stopped by her parents, who continue to treat her like a burden and piece of property, only to kill them in a rage. Afterwards Yotsuyu plays out Asahi's assigned role in the tragedy until the very end, using the last of her strength to defy and kill him.

However... "Yotsuyu" seems to be trying too hard to play the role of the iron-heeled Witch of Doma. Before incarnating herself into Tsukuyomi she grandstands at length about how she's an Imperial citizen, and how she's going to make Doma suffer and pay both to fulfill her duty and for personal satisfaction. However, her actions as Tsukuyomi don't really support that being her true intent. Instead of attacking right away she waits patiently for the others to evacuate and for the Warrior of Light to charge her. After just a few moments of combat, she's so weakened that she requires external stimuli in the form of phantoms to power herself up, and even when trying to do that is stopped short by a phantom of Gosetsu holding off Zenos. After using her Nightbloom super, she seems to be fully aware and accepting of the fact the Warrior of Light is going to kill her - she feels she's beyond redemption, despite Gosetsu's protestations to the contrary. In the end she finishes off Asahi, letting cooler (and saner) heads prevail.

Yotsuyu knew everything that would happen, and she played it all to an ultimately good end she sacrificed her life for. She knew Asahi's plan (obviously), and she knew the Warrior of Light would be there. She knew that playing "Yotsuyu," claiming Imperial citizenship, would place the onus for the summoning on the Empire, and she knew (incarnate) summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She also knew Asahi would twist events on paper, claiming a Doman citizen was responsible, so saved the last of her strength to kill him and allow a clear version of the events to be relayed back to Garlemald - not only sparing Doma yet another bloody war, but exposing the nefarious elements of the Empire by sending the genuinely populist Garleans back with that correct record of events.

In short, Yotsuyu (or Tsuyu) wanted us to kill her because she didn't feel like she deserved the kindness and mercy Gosetsu and everyone else offered her after what she did, and knew that summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She played that to her advantage by declaring Imperial allegiance and saving the last of her strength to cut the head off the serpent running the game (though personal satisfaction was also a factor), ending the life she felt she didn't deserve to do it. Even with her memories returned Tsuyu had become her true persona, while "Yotsuyu" was just a mask she wore to deceive everyone into playing the parts she wanted them to. (Ironically the exact opposite of what so many were suspicious of.)

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

Either way, the Warrior of Light is clearly not happy with how things turned out and enraged by Asahi's barbarism, so I do not agree with the conclusion that they are little more than a killing machine seeking thrills without scruples.

[Alleo]

To me, the MSQ was like watching a Shakespear tragedy but also the desacralization of the warrior of light.

And I think this is were it show our failure as Warrior of Light. Because her only image of a "virtuous person" was the old samurai. He was the only light in her heart, the only rempart against her worst fear.

At no point, an image of the Warrior of Light appear to help her. Or perhaps you could say that Gosetsu was her Warrior of Light?

About this (big text incoming)

The question is: Is that really fair to the WoL. First we are still mostly a stranger to this land that helps it people, an outsider that was not there when they all suffered. We also saw her mostly in her monster form, where she is evil and sadistic. We did not know that she survived until later and we also witnessed how she shot Gosetsu, someone that at least grew a bit dear to the WoL.

Then we learn that both somehow survived and she lost her memory. She already had Gosetsu at that moment that protected her since the fall. She didnt need us staying at her side and it would not make sense since we are even barely staying for real friends either. We did not know if she was faking it and since we had other matters to care for we left them in the care of those we trust a bit. We also showed enough kindness by not just slaying her and letting the judgement be done by Hien.

When we returned for this patch it was the first time we really knew that she was not faking it. Yet its not our job and we also dont have time to personally care for her. Again Gosetsu and the others are there to do that and not some stranger. Again we show at least the kindness by agreeing with the exchange and being fine with letting her stay here if she does not get her memories back. This was all we should be realistically expect to do as a stranger.

And we fought her after her own choice of becoming a primal. And again we did not mock her, did not torture her, heck Asahi even implies that we may not have finished her off. Yes we do not appear there because we are a stranger but at the same time we are also her protector. Its us that slays the other enemies of hers in her state and without us even the image of Gosetsu couldnt have done much. (If the WoL fails the mechanics Gosetsu will be the one slain) So we are again helping already.

The WoL was probably never meant as a messiahs. We are an adventurer that went on that path and that still show compassion, saddness, forgiveness and more which makes the WoL already vastly different from Zenos. Even the best person in the world will never be able to help every single soul that lives. Its not our fault and it would be way to much to hold it over the WoL that he/she was not constantly at her side and showing her the good ways. Even Jesus himself needed other people to help him spread his message and acts.

I am not sure if Gosetsu accepted the Yotsuyu before the memory loss. Hien mentioned that he lost his wife and daugther and that her acting like a child probably reminded him of her. I am not saying that he used Tsuyu but these old feelings probably played a big part in this. If she would have stayed the old way the whole time he probably would have watched her die or kill her himself.

There is also no hint in the story that the WoL wants her memories to be back. This is something completely on us. I for example wanted her to die if she regains her memories but I also had accepted that she might get away as Tsuyu and started to see them different. The WoL was shocked about the way that Asahi tried to make her remember, the Wol was also helping with searching for her twice and showed no intent on hurting her. Asahi says that we did not finish the job and even though we did watch him do all the stuff afterwards we were also really angry which was shown in our fist and angry emote. Even I say that she did not deserve that threatment from him and that he was even the bigger monster. But we also might have to accept that the WoL knows when its useless to try to save someone and that maybe they, like humans do, might still not feel good about Yotsuyu. I mean the answers to her were either that Gosetsu would miss her or that Tsuyu deserved better. Which kinda shows that the WoL should probably feel something for Tsuyu but not that much for Yotsuyu.

In the end we sadly are not able to prevent every tragedy, every murder and we are not able to heal every soul. Its impossible. We are already shouldering the burden of being Hydaelyns only hope and at the same time we also shoulder the burden of other people and other conflicts that are not truly ours. It should be allowed that the WoL trust others enough to take care of people that need it. For example we try to bring peace with the beast tribes or help others built up their dreams but afterwards they also have to do this alone. The same here too. We saved both of them from death or capture, did not enact any sort of revenge on her and after her fate was decided we left her in the care of the one person that might understand her the best and it showed that he was the best for her. Sadly she did choose to forsake this and get her revenge and turning back into the monster she was before.

Timeline of the Events Mentioned in the 24-Man... with supplements from the lore book.

The general idea is that some of the Garlean's ancestors were form Goug. They abandoned the city for the continent after their city/tower was destroyed (and were taken in by the country of Ivalice). Ivalice's population is then forced out of Ivalice and they eventually found Garlemld in the far north of Ilsabard. Dalmasca is then founded where Ivalice was.

About 24 man raid

My problem of understanding is: They say that Dalmasca was already ruled nearly 1000 years long until it fell 30 years ago. If Dalmasca was only founded when Gog was destroyed then these people and thus Ivalice are over 1000 years old. Which is such a huge time that I have a hard time understanding how they would find any prove that those who fledfrom Gog over 1000 years (or even more then because Gog was already in ruins when these people found and used it as an lighthouse) are somehow connected to the Garleans that only 50 years ago came together and formed the nation we know. Why did they not improve their live until Garlemald was founded? Over 1000 years should be more than enough to built up empires again and again. If Dalmasca came later, why did those from Gog not simply built their places on the ground of Dalmasca or Rabanastre?

So for me it feels more like that they either coexisted for a longer time and Gog was simply outside their border and maybe they even had a conflict. Seeing how they themselved destroyed their city with their technic maybe Dalmasca did not like their advancement and thus did not want to take them in after the explosion?

I wonder if we learn at the end of the story that they have anchestors in Ivalice and that as a consequence they begin to understand that not every single technical item should be constructed otherwise it could be the downfall of a nation. I mean even Cid hinted at this by saying that this was the reasoning of the old emporer. That its not the weapon that kills but the one that wields it, and used that to create horrible stuff.

[Remedi]

After some time to mull it over, I came to a very different conclusion surrounding Yotsuyu's actions during 4.3. It's still very tragic - perhaps moreso than your interpretation - but a bit more hopeful, I think.

Yotsuyu never really came back. The "Yotsuyu" we see is, for the most part, Tsuyu playing Yotsuyu.

We know she regained her memories in Namai and when confronted with her parents. After delivering the persimmon Gosetsu wanted to him, she nearly commits suicide out of guilt for her past actions and feeling unworthy of Gosetsu and the others' kindness and mercy. She's then stopped by her parents, who continue to treat her like a burden and piece of property, only to kill them in a rage. Afterwards Yotsuyu plays out Asahi's assigned role in the tragedy until the very end, using the last of her strength to defy and kill him.

However... "Yotsuyu" seems to be trying too hard to play the role of the iron-heeled Witch of Doma. Before incarnating herself into Tsukuyomi she grandstands at length about how she's an Imperial citizen, and how she's going to make Doma suffer and pay both to fulfill her duty and for personal satisfaction. However, her actions as Tsukuyomi don't really support that being her true intent. Instead of attacking right away she waits patiently for the others to evacuate and for the Warrior of Light to charge her. After just a few moments of combat, she's so weakened that she requires external stimuli in the form of phantoms to power herself up, and even when trying to do that is stopped short by a phantom of Gosetsu holding off Zenos. After using her Nightbloom super, she seems to be fully aware and accepting of the fact the Warrior of Light is going to kill her - she feels she's beyond redemption, despite Gosetsu's protestations to the contrary. In the end she finishes off Asahi, letting cooler (and saner) heads prevail.

Yotsuyu knew everything that would happen, and she played it all to an ultimately good end she sacrificed her life for. She knew Asahi's plan (obviously), and she knew the Warrior of Light would be there. She knew that playing "Yotsuyu," claiming Imperial citizenship, would place the onus for the summoning on the Empire, and she knew (incarnate) summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She also knew Asahi would twist events on paper, claiming a Doman citizen was responsible, so saved the last of her strength to kill him and allow a clear version of the events to be relayed back to Garlemald - not only sparing Doma yet another bloody war, but exposing the nefarious elements of the Empire by sending the genuinely populist Garleans back with that correct record of events.

In short, Yotsuyu (or Tsuyu) wanted us to kill her because she didn't feel like she deserved the kindness and mercy Gosetsu and everyone else offered her after what she did, and knew that summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She played that to her advantage by declaring Imperial allegiance and saving the last of her strength to cut the head off the serpent running the game (though personal satisfaction was also a factor), ending the life she felt she didn't deserve to do it. Even with her memories returned Tsuyu had become her true persona, while "Yotsuyu" was just a mask she wore to deceive everyone into playing the parts she wanted them to. (Ironically the exact opposite of what so many were suspicious of.)

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

Either way, the Warrior of Light is clearly not happy with how things turned out and enraged by Asahi's barbarism, so I do not agree with the conclusion that they are little more than a killing machine seeking thrills without scruples.

Regarding this

I had the same feeling, it was a given that after getting the persimmon she said everything she saw was true, so she had her memory back, but Yotsuyu wasn't once she saw her foster parents the memory of them came back too and when she saw that they were readmitted in doma with the prospect of beign sold again she decided to end them, but she couldn't end her brother without sparking a war as such she decided to pòlay along knowing that we would stop her or so I think. I mean she said she saved the last of her strength for him it has to mean something unless it was a cheesy phrase can some1 provide other language translations of that? Even after that she said that they couldn't understand those ppl and all of that it was a bit out of character for Yotsuyu, I mean compare it to her end before where she spewed her poison till the last, this time she was peaceful accepting her death

[Asiragan]

@Demafogotto and @Cilia
(And also @Alleo, but your post came when I was writing this one )

Thanks for both of your answers.

Actually, the fact that Zenos call us "friend" at the end of the 4.0 MSQ was always on the back of my head. When writing the post, I didn't wanted to dive to much in it, as I wanted to avoid driving my point off-topic. I recognize that I was really clumsy there ^^'

The point I wanted to put here, was that the WoL didn't really show much compasion toward Yotsuyu, even after seeing her like a child or even after learning her past.
I wanted to connect the dots, tough how clumsy I may be, about this bitter ending for the Yotsuyu arc and Zenos' last words.

If the choice was given about how to act to the players, maybe the outcome would have been different?

But as it stand now, I feel like the WoL get a part of responsibility in it. Sure, as you pointed out, @Demafogotto, it's not the first time that the WoL have to face the death of others because of his/her action or inaction, and it's most certainly not the last time either.
And it's not like this situation is something that we had complete control over, and that we have the same level of implication than Asahi. But I feel like that it wouldn't take much to bring back Yotsuyu to the light, and that the cold attitude of the WoL didn't really help that.

You pointed the DRK questline, which is a part of what made my thought about it. Not the 60-70 one, but rather the 30-50 one.

The one when your dark side said, in front of you, all your darkest toughs, that it's a chore to help others, they're always complaining. That we should just let go this whole "Warrior of light, holder of the people's hope" business and live as free as we want.

In the same way, didn't we enjoy finally having to fight Zenos on equal term, even besting it's fusion with Shinryuu?

After all, didn't we enjoy having a new primal to kill? A new fight to test our skills? Even if said primal was Tsuyu?

Maybe that's an other debate, about how deeply our emotion, as a player, influence the WoL's one. But that's the basis of my thoughts, when I said that "we aren't that much different from Zenos" and how 4.3 MSQ was about the "desacralization of the WoL".

Up until now, even if the WoL caused some death, and is living with the regret of it, I don't think I ever saw him/her so...detached? That wasn't really sadness on the WoL face nor anger. More like, disappointment?


@cilia : You have a point, in saying that Yotsuyu had no will to live after regaining her memories. But still, those who interrupted her was her adoptive parents, even if it was per mistake. This is when her final choice were to be made.
Of course, she wouldn't commit suicide in front of them. So her choice was either to go back to the castle... Or burn her life in vengeance, killing the family that made her suffer.

I can't see this in an other way that she throw away the redemption that was offered to her (Be it by the Heavens, destiny, luck or whatever), to live her life as she was living it before the incident at Doma's castle. In a way, it's a choice full of pride, I guess, and really fitting of her.



Of course, it's my own point of view on the question. I can be completely missing the point, but I tough it was interesting and wanted to share it

[Alleo]

Regarding this

I had the same feeling, it was a given that after getting the persimmon she said everything she saw was true, so she had her memory back, but Yotsuyu wasn't once she saw her foster parents the memory of them came back too and when she saw that they were readmitted in doma with the prospect of beign sold again she decided to end them, but she couldn't end her brother without sparking a war as such she decided to pòlay along knowing that we would stop her or so I think. I mean she said she saved the last of her strength for him it has to mean something unless it was a cheesy phrase can some1 provide other language translations of that? Even after that she said that they couldn't understand those ppl and all of that it was a bit out of character for Yotsuyu, I mean compare it to her end before where she spewed her poison till the last, this time she was peaceful accepting her death

About Yotsuyu:

I have a hard time believing that this was all an act of Tsuyu at the end. I just believed that some parts came back earlier but she did not truly understand it. She ask them what she had done and said sorry for it. I mean they did tell her that she was horrible, deserves punishment and even Hien told them (while standing next to her..) that he tried to kill her and that the people dont need to fear her.

She did say that she remembers but at the same time she was acting still way too much like Tsuyu and we also know that more memories came back later thus she could not have remember it all.

I think that most of Yotsuyu was back after the meeting with Asahi and her parents. I think she still felt all the hatred and vengeance but also remembered the kindness of Gosetsu thus she remembered being Tsuyu. But Asahi threatens her and she might now that he will do everything to get her back. And maybe probably for the first time in a long while she feels conflicted. Maybe even seeing how the reasons that she used to do all those horrible things are slipping out of her fingers because even after shooting him and wanting him death, he showed her kindness and showed her that not everyone was like that and that maybe those people did not deserve what she has done to them. (The girls kindness in Namai probably helped with the conflict too)

So for her death seems to be solution. Put then her parents came and the old rage and hatred that may have been decreased a bit by the kindness emerged and she tells herself that the kindness was maybe just a lie and then she chooses to emprace her old self again but with the conflict probably still raging on which was shown in battle later.

I dont know if her scene before turning is truly an act or not. But I dont think it was mostly Tsuyu acting. I think that it was both of her sides which kinda is shown in the primal too. For me she was Yotsuyu back with all the hate and rage but also the kindness of Gosetsu.

In the end she chose vengeance, knowing that if we beat her, that she will die, so I also believe that she was trying to kill herself with that but still with a lot of her old negative emotions at heart which won over even with Gosetsu slaying Zenos and her attacking us even harder. She even says at the end that she thougth that this rage would go on but that she seemingly feels good for being able to kill the three worst people of her life and I think that its also then, when her rages goes away, that she also realizes the kindness again and maybe even truly realizes that this might hurt Gosetsu again.

A tragic tale but I think its too hard to really say if she was acting and what part she was acting. Maybe she did act or maybe she was consumed so much by rage after her parents speech that she snaps and truly means the things she are saying.

About our characters behaviour with Yotsuyu:

@Demafogotto and @Cilia
(And also @Alleo, but your post came when I was writing this one )

Thanks for both of your answers.

Actually, the fact that Zenos call us "friend" at the end of the 4.0 MSQ was always on the back of my head. When writing the post, I didn't wanted to dive to much in it, as I wanted to avoid driving my point off-topic. I recognize that I was really clumsy there ^^'

The point I wanted to put here, was that the WoL didn't really show much compasion toward Yotsuyu, even after seeing her like a child or even after learning her past.
I wanted to connect the dots, tough how clumsy I may be, about this bitter ending for the Yotsuyu arc and Zenos' last words.

If the choice was given about how to act to the players, maybe the outcome would have been different?

But as it stand now, I feel like the WoL get a part of responsibility in it. Sure, as you pointed out, @Demafogotto, it's not the first time that the WoL have to face the death of others because of his/her action or inaction, and it's most certainly not the last time either.
And it's not like this situation is something that we had complete control over, and that we have the same level of implication than Asahi. But I feel like that it wouldn't take much to bring back Yotsuyu to the light, and that the cold attitude of the WoL didn't really help that.

You pointed the DRK questline, which is a part of what made my thought about it. Not the 60-70 one, but rather the 30-50 one.

The one when your dark side said, in front of you, all your darkest toughs, that it's a chore to help others, they're always complaining. That we should just let go this whole "Warrior of light, holder of the people's hope" business and live as free as we want.

In the same way, didn't we enjoy finally having to fight Zenos on equal term, even besting it's fusion with Shinryuu?

After all, didn't we enjoy having a new primal to kill? A new fight to test our skills? Even if said primal was Tsuyu?

Maybe that's an other debate, about how deeply our emotion, as a player, influence the WoL's one. But that's the basis of my thoughts, when I said that "we aren't that much different from Zenos" and how 4.3 MSQ was about the "desacralization of the WoL".

Up until now, even if the WoL caused some death, and is living with the regret of it, I don't think I ever saw him/her so...detached? That wasn't really sadness on the WoL face nor anger. More like, disappointment?

Being his friend is a choice the player makes and I was not one because I dont see the WoL as Zenos. I see him as the one that anyone with great power can turn into when they dont feel anything for anyone other then themselves. But this more a "what if the WoL" and not how the WoL is portrayed.

Fray is also just annoyed because we are risking our lifes for people that take this for granted and in a lot of these questlines the NPCs get themselves in great danger out of greed or stupid decisions even after we warned them, then we saved them and they are ungrateful and even annoyed that we did not bring back everything in perfect condition. This just shows that even the WoL has a point were its enough. But the biggest take away: Even after that we continue on and still help people.

Again I think you put too much responsibility on the WoLs shoulder. We are not the one that made her into the person she was today, we are also not the one able to make decisions for her. Unlike Yugiri I also cant remember a evil look that we threw her and we acted kinda neutral around someone that was a sadistic murderer before the memory loss. Could you really say that most of us would be able to threat a mass murderer or tyrant with utter kindness if they lose their memory? Even when you witnessed them doing horrible things? I dare to say that most would be still hateful or at least neutral towards them. The same with the past thing. Maybe the WoL can understand her past and feel bad for her but still understand that this still makes her a monster. I mean go to the bad people of this world and look up their past and see that probably quite some had some bad events or horrible lifes. Now you can understand how they maybe turned that way but I would not feel sad for them right now because people have choices. I am quite sure that a lot of people in real life that get through horrible stuff dont turn into monsters like her.

Also its not that easy to just forget your past and your feeling just because of some good words. They kinda portrayed it quite realistically in there. That kindness did move her but in the end the past and what was done to her and what she has done cant just be deleted like that.

We also should not forget that we barely met her. Unlike Hien and Gosetsu we are barely in Doma and this is the second or third time we saw her after she came back and we only saw here a few short times then because of her running around and then all the stuff happening with Asahi. There was no time with single chats, there was no time to truly learn more about her. So for us this might be gut punching and emotional but for the WoL this might just hurt more because they know how it will hit Gosetsu. Because we knew her more as the murderer and had barely time with the new Tsuyu. And the WoL reacting more detached could just mean that they are not truly sure about this either. I mean we learned that Asahi has a bad plan, see how he is even a bigger monster than his sister, know that there might be a big trap, fear that any of her friends or the prisoners will get hurt or killed and also maybe have to reign in all the bad emotions towards Asahi. Then Yotsuyu turns into a primal and maybe next to all of these happenings this might just be the thing we can accept the most? From all these people she is the one we have the least emotional contact with and we also know that she might just have doomed Domas freedom. So in the end the WoL might be a bit sad but also maybe okay because its still a person that has done lots of horrible things. (Or SE did not want to give them too much reactions because not everyone would be sad/or "happy" about this)

[Remedi]

About Yotsuyu:

I have a hard time believing that this was all an act of Tsuyu at the end. I just believed that some parts came back earlier but she did not truly understand it. She ask them what she had done and said sorry for it. I mean they did tell her that she was horrible, deserves punishment and even Hien told them (while standing next to her..) that he tried to kill her and that the people dont need to fear her.

She did say that she remembers but at the same time she was acting still way too much like Tsuyu and we also know that more memories came back later thus she could not have remember it all.

I think that most of Yotsuyu was back after the meeting with Asahi and her parents. I think she still felt all the hatred and vengeance but also remembered the kindness of Gosetsu thus she remembered being Tsuyu. But Asahi threatens her and she might now that he will do everything to get her back. And maybe probably for the first time in a long while she feels conflicted. Maybe even seeing how the reasons that she used to do all those horrible things are slipping out of her fingers because even after shooting him and wanting him death, he showed her kindness and showed her that not everyone was like that and that maybe those people did not deserve what she has done to them. (The girls kindness in Namai probably helped with the conflict too)

So for her death seems to be solution. Put then her parents came and the old rage and hatred that may have been decreased a bit by the kindness emerged and she tells herself that the kindness was maybe just a lie and then she chooses to emprace her old self again but with the conflict probably still raging on which was shown in battle later.

I dont know if her scene before turning is truly an act or not. But I dont think it was mostly Tsuyu acting. I think that it was both of her sides which kinda is shown in the primal too. For me she was Yotsuyu back with all the hate and rage but also the kindness of Gosetsu.

In the end she chose vengeance, knowing that if we beat her, that she will die, so I also believe that she was trying to kill herself with that but still with a lot of her old negative emotions at heart which one over even with Gosetsu slaying Zenos and her attacking us even harder. She even says at the end that she thougth that this rage would go on but that she seemingly feels good for being able to kill the three worst people of her life and I think that its also then, when her rages goes away, that she also realizes the kindness again and maybe even truly realizes that this might hurt Gosetsu again.

A tragic tale but I think its too hard to really say if she was acting and what part she was action. Maybe she did or maybe she was consumed so much by rage after her parents speech that she snaps and truly means the things she are saying.

Re Yotsuyu:

It's possible too yes, I mean it's just an interpretation of what was displayed which I think other languages migth shed more clue, what I go by was her kinda out of character state after the defeat, she was kinda praising us and the other ppl. That said when she tried to kill her it's possible that it was Yotsuyu herself that felt shame over Gosetsu's kindness after all they went trough. So perhaps they right reading of it would be saying that there was a bit of both of her sides in her last act.
That said It's sad that only in the end she understood that the reason she felt always so hungry for vengeance was because she was direct her hate towards the wrong persons and that only the death of her brother would've really satisfied. I think that was a brilliant touch, though imho I'd say that Iceheart and Haurchefant ghosts appearing were a bit more strong in my opinion (well the whole 3.3 in my opinion was stronger as a MSQ simply for how strong the ending was and since we got no credits this time I'd say they ar enot considering 4.3 an ending either

[Alleo]

Re Yotsuyu:

It's possible too yes, I mean it's just an interpretation of what was displayed which I think other languages migth shed more clue, what I go by was her kinda out of character state after the defeat, she was kinda praising us and the other ppl. That said when she tried to kill her it's possible that it was Yotsuyu herself that felt shame over Gosetsu's kindness after all they went trough. So perhaps they right reading of it would be saying that there was a bit of both of her sides in her last act.
That said It's sad that only in the end she understood that the reason she felt always so hungry for vengeance was because she was direct her hate towards the wrong persons and that only the death of her brother would've really satisfied. I think that was a brilliant touch, though imho I'd say that Iceheart and Haurchefant ghosts appearing were a bit more strong in my opinion (well the whole 3.3 in my opinion was stronger as a MSQ simply for how strong the ending was and since we got no credits this time I'd say they ar enot considering 4.3 an ending either

About Yotsuyu and other languages:

I cant tell you the exact same words in the german language but I do remember that we had different choices at the end. She kinda ask us why we look at her like that, we should be happy that the good won again. Thus we could answer her that this would make Gosetsu sad or that yes the good side won (and hit me all but I chose the last one). So unlike in the english version, where you as the WoL feel sad that Tsuyu does not have a chance, you either feel bad for Gosetsu or that its good that she will die because she was still bad. Complete different intents imo.

Her answer when you chose the last one is the question if Gosetsu is seeing it like that too? (Kinda guilt tripping us that maybe this was not good.) And then she asks herself if he liked the Kaki. So for me it was a bit surprising to see the english version because the second one was so different and I am curious if the english or german one is the japanese version of it. (For me the german choices feel a bit better because we were not that sad and thus those two would fit) But thats just out of my memory and may not be 100% accurate.

[KageTokage]

Previous lore regarding The Burn:

The cave-dwelling Uyagir in the Nhaama desert (cave entrance at X:8.8, Y:29.6) seem to claim their ancestors were responsible for what happened. It's not from a quest, just standard NPC dialogue.



So... did they summon a primal to defeat their enemies? Were the beetles some kind of primal gone out of control or even someone else's primal? (something on the scale and behaviour of Bismarck I suppose.) Or even Allagan bio-warfare or machinery as perceived by a primitive tribe?

It's a little ambiguous whether they are currently living in the bored caves though, or if they moved out into different caves later. But the world map does have a drawing of a giant worm (beetle larva) in The Burn, so that part seems to add up.


They also have cave murals that, according to one of the other tribesmen, "tell stories of our ancestors' greed":

(I only took the one screenshot and forgot to check the other cave walls to see if they had different images. This one doesn't seem particularly useful in the end.)

All on the right seem to be hunters and horses, directly behind the scaffolding are mammoths (?) and at the top is a warrior with a sword riding possibly-a-yol.

I'm not certain but I think this might be the same mural in the cave where you fight the yol at the end of Bardam's Mettle. Whether that would mean anything or if they just recycled the design.

I think they're referring to the Nhaama Desert.

[Remedi]

About Yotsuyu and other languages:

I cant tell you the exact same words in the german language but I do remember that we had different choices at the end. She kinda ask us why we look at her like that, we should be happy that the good won again. Thus we could answer her that this would make Gosetsu sad or that yes the good side won (and hit me all but I chose the last one). So unlike in the english version, where you as the WoL feel sad that Tsuyu does not have a chance, you either feel bad for Gosetsu or that its good that she will die because she was still bad. Complete different intents imo.

Her answer when you chose the last one is the question if Gosetsu is seeing it like that too? (Kinda guilt tripping us that maybe this was not good.) And then she asks herself if he liked the Kaki. So for me it was a bit surprising to see the english version because the second one was so different and I am curious if the english or german one is the japanese version of it. (For me the german choices feel a bit better because we were not that sad and thus those two would fit) But thats just out of my memory and may not be 100% accurate.

and the translation team strikes again.......sigh

[Enlial]

MSQ:

Also as much as I hate to say it Shadowhunter is almost painfully obviously Gaius. The age, weapon, fighting style and even past history with the Scions fits. Plus he would have a reason for fighting Ascians after getting screwed over by one. I will admit I am not a fan of the Gaius returning thing. I tend to find people over idolised him and ignored that while for a Garlean general he was more open minded he still did a lot of bad stuff. Regardless, I am open to it but would have probably preferred a new character.

Alliance Raid:

spoilers...

Yeah I'd be shocked it it turns out not to be Gaius. I noticed that some of the previous npc dialogue from the MSQ (I *think*... could have been a side quest) seemed to paint him in a pretty redeeming light. The fact that he keeps getting mentioned and "no body = not dead" (hah ok, yeah I know) has had me thinking he'd make a comeback for awhile.

I'm really excited he's maybe coming back. The villains in this game tend to be so 1-dimensional so its nice to see one might get fleshed out more. The shadowhunter hardly seems like a "good guy" and even if he does end up that way, it'd be far less absurd than the 360 ysayle did. "Im sorry! I didnt mean to hurt anyone!" says the the leader of a bloodthristy and insane dragon cult. Sorry, Im rambling xD