Revelations from Patch 4.3

[Asiragan]

To me, the MSQ was like watching a Shakespear tragedy but also the desacralization of the warrior of light.

After the event in Doma's Castle, Yotsuyu lost her memories and became entirely a different person. By living beside Gosetsu, she learnt the warmth of parental love.

In a sense, it was Heaven's way to give her a second chance, a way to redeem herself.

During the events of 4.3, she finally regain her memories, while encountering both of her adoptive parents. Thus she is confronted by a decisive choice :

• She either go back to the Castle, where Gosetsu and Hien are and face her judgement. Then she eventually got traded in exchange for the prisoners, but their is a definitive possibility that she could stay, protected by Gosetsu, and spent the rest of her life trying to right her wrongs.
  
  * Or she give in to her desire of vengeance. Rejecting by the same way her redemption.

Of course, if you have played the 4.3 scenario, you know how it ends. Yotsuyu have killed both of her parents, thus sealing her fate. She rejected everything, even Gosetsu, and even her humanity by becoming a primal, for the sake of revenge.


During the fight against Tsukuyomi, we see her fear attacking her. Her parents, the domian, her brother, etc... We tried to protect her from this, but we would have failed if Gosetsu's image didn't block Zenos' shadow.

And I think this is were it show our failure as Warrior of Light. Because her only image of a "virtuous person" was the old samurai. He was the only light in her heart, the only rempart against her worst fear.

At no point, an image of the Warrior of Light appear to help her. Or perhaps you could say that Gosetsu was her Warrior of Light?

He was the only one who accepted everything of her, even the Yotsuyu before she lost her memories, and still cared for her.
Just think about it : The Empire either want her dead or want to use her like a tool. Hien want to use her like some exchange money if she got her memories back, while Yugiri just want her head.
And us, the warriors of light, are just standing here, hoping that she don't regain her memories so that Gosetsu stay happy. Or worse, that she regain her memories, so that something happen.

But at the end of the battle,we found at our feet the corpses of a brother and his sister, after they killed each other. And a grieving Gosetsu.

Some Warrior a Light we are, right?

I wonder what make us so different from Zenos, right now? This event showed us that we are no messiah, but just an overpowered killing machine, striving for the next battle that will make us feeling alive.

[Cilia]

To me, the MSQ was like watching a Shakespear tragedy but also the desacralization of the warrior of light.

After some time to mull it over, I came to a very different conclusion surrounding Yotsuyu's actions during 4.3. It's still very tragic - perhaps moreso than your interpretation - but a bit more hopeful, I think.

Yotsuyu never really came back. The "Yotsuyu" we see is, for the most part, Tsuyu playing Yotsuyu.

We know she regained her memories in Namai and when confronted with her parents. After delivering the persimmon Gosetsu wanted to him, she nearly commits suicide out of guilt for her past actions and feeling unworthy of Gosetsu and the others' kindness and mercy. She's then stopped by her parents, who continue to treat her like a burden and piece of property, only to kill them in a rage. Afterwards Yotsuyu plays out Asahi's assigned role in the tragedy until the very end, using the last of her strength to defy and kill him.

However... "Yotsuyu" seems to be trying too hard to play the role of the iron-heeled Witch of Doma. Before incarnating herself into Tsukuyomi she grandstands at length about how she's an Imperial citizen, and how she's going to make Doma suffer and pay both to fulfill her duty and for personal satisfaction. However, her actions as Tsukuyomi don't really support that being her true intent. Instead of attacking right away she waits patiently for the others to evacuate and for the Warrior of Light to charge her. After just a few moments of combat, she's so weakened that she requires external stimuli in the form of phantoms to power herself up, and even when trying to do that is stopped short by a phantom of Gosetsu holding off Zenos. After using her Nightbloom super, she seems to be fully aware and accepting of the fact the Warrior of Light is going to kill her - she feels she's beyond redemption, despite Gosetsu's protestations to the contrary. In the end she finishes off Asahi, letting cooler (and saner) heads prevail.

Yotsuyu knew everything that would happen, and she played it all to an ultimately good end she sacrificed her life for. She knew Asahi's plan (obviously), and she knew the Warrior of Light would be there. She knew that playing "Yotsuyu," claiming Imperial citizenship, would place the onus for the summoning on the Empire, and she knew (incarnate) summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She also knew Asahi would twist events on paper, claiming a Doman citizen was responsible, so saved the last of her strength to kill him and allow a clear version of the events to be relayed back to Garlemald - not only sparing Doma yet another bloody war, but exposing the nefarious elements of the Empire by sending the genuinely populist Garleans back with that correct record of events.

In short, Yotsuyu (or Tsuyu) wanted us to kill her because she didn't feel like she deserved the kindness and mercy Gosetsu and everyone else offered her after what she did, and knew that summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She played that to her advantage by declaring Imperial allegiance and saving the last of her strength to cut the head off the serpent running the game (though personal satisfaction was also a factor), ending the life she felt she didn't deserve to do it. Even with her memories returned Tsuyu had become her true persona, while "Yotsuyu" was just a mask she wore to deceive everyone into playing the parts she wanted them to. (Ironically the exact opposite of what so many were suspicious of.)

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

Either way, the Warrior of Light is clearly not happy with how things turned out and enraged by Asahi's barbarism, so I do not agree with the conclusion that they are little more than a killing machine seeking thrills without scruples.

[Remedi]

After some time to mull it over, I came to a very different conclusion surrounding Yotsuyu's actions during 4.3. It's still very tragic - perhaps moreso than your interpretation - but a bit more hopeful, I think.

Yotsuyu never really came back. The "Yotsuyu" we see is, for the most part, Tsuyu playing Yotsuyu.

We know she regained her memories in Namai and when confronted with her parents. After delivering the persimmon Gosetsu wanted to him, she nearly commits suicide out of guilt for her past actions and feeling unworthy of Gosetsu and the others' kindness and mercy. She's then stopped by her parents, who continue to treat her like a burden and piece of property, only to kill them in a rage. Afterwards Yotsuyu plays out Asahi's assigned role in the tragedy until the very end, using the last of her strength to defy and kill him.

However... "Yotsuyu" seems to be trying too hard to play the role of the iron-heeled Witch of Doma. Before incarnating herself into Tsukuyomi she grandstands at length about how she's an Imperial citizen, and how she's going to make Doma suffer and pay both to fulfill her duty and for personal satisfaction. However, her actions as Tsukuyomi don't really support that being her true intent. Instead of attacking right away she waits patiently for the others to evacuate and for the Warrior of Light to charge her. After just a few moments of combat, she's so weakened that she requires external stimuli in the form of phantoms to power herself up, and even when trying to do that is stopped short by a phantom of Gosetsu holding off Zenos. After using her Nightbloom super, she seems to be fully aware and accepting of the fact the Warrior of Light is going to kill her - she feels she's beyond redemption, despite Gosetsu's protestations to the contrary. In the end she finishes off Asahi, letting cooler (and saner) heads prevail.

Yotsuyu knew everything that would happen, and she played it all to an ultimately good end she sacrificed her life for. She knew Asahi's plan (obviously), and she knew the Warrior of Light would be there. She knew that playing "Yotsuyu," claiming Imperial citizenship, would place the onus for the summoning on the Empire, and she knew (incarnate) summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She also knew Asahi would twist events on paper, claiming a Doman citizen was responsible, so saved the last of her strength to kill him and allow a clear version of the events to be relayed back to Garlemald - not only sparing Doma yet another bloody war, but exposing the nefarious elements of the Empire by sending the genuinely populist Garleans back with that correct record of events.

In short, Yotsuyu (or Tsuyu) wanted us to kill her because she didn't feel like she deserved the kindness and mercy Gosetsu and everyone else offered her after what she did, and knew that summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She played that to her advantage by declaring Imperial allegiance and saving the last of her strength to cut the head off the serpent running the game (though personal satisfaction was also a factor), ending the life she felt she didn't deserve to do it. Even with her memories returned Tsuyu had become her true persona, while "Yotsuyu" was just a mask she wore to deceive everyone into playing the parts she wanted them to. (Ironically the exact opposite of what so many were suspicious of.)

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

Either way, the Warrior of Light is clearly not happy with how things turned out and enraged by Asahi's barbarism, so I do not agree with the conclusion that they are little more than a killing machine seeking thrills without scruples.

Regarding this

I had the same feeling, it was a given that after getting the persimmon she said everything she saw was true, so she had her memory back, but Yotsuyu wasn't once she saw her foster parents the memory of them came back too and when she saw that they were readmitted in doma with the prospect of beign sold again she decided to end them, but she couldn't end her brother without sparking a war as such she decided to pòlay along knowing that we would stop her or so I think. I mean she said she saved the last of her strength for him it has to mean something unless it was a cheesy phrase can some1 provide other language translations of that? Even after that she said that they couldn't understand those ppl and all of that it was a bit out of character for Yotsuyu, I mean compare it to her end before where she spewed her poison till the last, this time she was peaceful accepting her death

[Alleo]

Regarding this

I had the same feeling, it was a given that after getting the persimmon she said everything she saw was true, so she had her memory back, but Yotsuyu wasn't once she saw her foster parents the memory of them came back too and when she saw that they were readmitted in doma with the prospect of beign sold again she decided to end them, but she couldn't end her brother without sparking a war as such she decided to pòlay along knowing that we would stop her or so I think. I mean she said she saved the last of her strength for him it has to mean something unless it was a cheesy phrase can some1 provide other language translations of that? Even after that she said that they couldn't understand those ppl and all of that it was a bit out of character for Yotsuyu, I mean compare it to her end before where she spewed her poison till the last, this time she was peaceful accepting her death

About Yotsuyu:

I have a hard time believing that this was all an act of Tsuyu at the end. I just believed that some parts came back earlier but she did not truly understand it. She ask them what she had done and said sorry for it. I mean they did tell her that she was horrible, deserves punishment and even Hien told them (while standing next to her..) that he tried to kill her and that the people dont need to fear her.

She did say that she remembers but at the same time she was acting still way too much like Tsuyu and we also know that more memories came back later thus she could not have remember it all.

I think that most of Yotsuyu was back after the meeting with Asahi and her parents. I think she still felt all the hatred and vengeance but also remembered the kindness of Gosetsu thus she remembered being Tsuyu. But Asahi threatens her and she might now that he will do everything to get her back. And maybe probably for the first time in a long while she feels conflicted. Maybe even seeing how the reasons that she used to do all those horrible things are slipping out of her fingers because even after shooting him and wanting him death, he showed her kindness and showed her that not everyone was like that and that maybe those people did not deserve what she has done to them. (The girls kindness in Namai probably helped with the conflict too)

So for her death seems to be solution. Put then her parents came and the old rage and hatred that may have been decreased a bit by the kindness emerged and she tells herself that the kindness was maybe just a lie and then she chooses to emprace her old self again but with the conflict probably still raging on which was shown in battle later.

I dont know if her scene before turning is truly an act or not. But I dont think it was mostly Tsuyu acting. I think that it was both of her sides which kinda is shown in the primal too. For me she was Yotsuyu back with all the hate and rage but also the kindness of Gosetsu.

In the end she chose vengeance, knowing that if we beat her, that she will die, so I also believe that she was trying to kill herself with that but still with a lot of her old negative emotions at heart which won over even with Gosetsu slaying Zenos and her attacking us even harder. She even says at the end that she thougth that this rage would go on but that she seemingly feels good for being able to kill the three worst people of her life and I think that its also then, when her rages goes away, that she also realizes the kindness again and maybe even truly realizes that this might hurt Gosetsu again.

A tragic tale but I think its too hard to really say if she was acting and what part she was acting. Maybe she did act or maybe she was consumed so much by rage after her parents speech that she snaps and truly means the things she are saying.

About our characters behaviour with Yotsuyu:

@Demafogotto and @Cilia
(And also @Alleo, but your post came when I was writing this one )

Thanks for both of your answers.

Actually, the fact that Zenos call us "friend" at the end of the 4.0 MSQ was always on the back of my head. When writing the post, I didn't wanted to dive to much in it, as I wanted to avoid driving my point off-topic. I recognize that I was really clumsy there ^^'

The point I wanted to put here, was that the WoL didn't really show much compasion toward Yotsuyu, even after seeing her like a child or even after learning her past.
I wanted to connect the dots, tough how clumsy I may be, about this bitter ending for the Yotsuyu arc and Zenos' last words.

If the choice was given about how to act to the players, maybe the outcome would have been different?

But as it stand now, I feel like the WoL get a part of responsibility in it. Sure, as you pointed out, @Demafogotto, it's not the first time that the WoL have to face the death of others because of his/her action or inaction, and it's most certainly not the last time either.
And it's not like this situation is something that we had complete control over, and that we have the same level of implication than Asahi. But I feel like that it wouldn't take much to bring back Yotsuyu to the light, and that the cold attitude of the WoL didn't really help that.

You pointed the DRK questline, which is a part of what made my thought about it. Not the 60-70 one, but rather the 30-50 one.

The one when your dark side said, in front of you, all your darkest toughs, that it's a chore to help others, they're always complaining. That we should just let go this whole "Warrior of light, holder of the people's hope" business and live as free as we want.

In the same way, didn't we enjoy finally having to fight Zenos on equal term, even besting it's fusion with Shinryuu?

After all, didn't we enjoy having a new primal to kill? A new fight to test our skills? Even if said primal was Tsuyu?

Maybe that's an other debate, about how deeply our emotion, as a player, influence the WoL's one. But that's the basis of my thoughts, when I said that "we aren't that much different from Zenos" and how 4.3 MSQ was about the "desacralization of the WoL".

Up until now, even if the WoL caused some death, and is living with the regret of it, I don't think I ever saw him/her so...detached? That wasn't really sadness on the WoL face nor anger. More like, disappointment?

Being his friend is a choice the player makes and I was not one because I dont see the WoL as Zenos. I see him as the one that anyone with great power can turn into when they dont feel anything for anyone other then themselves. But this more a "what if the WoL" and not how the WoL is portrayed.

Fray is also just annoyed because we are risking our lifes for people that take this for granted and in a lot of these questlines the NPCs get themselves in great danger out of greed or stupid decisions even after we warned them, then we saved them and they are ungrateful and even annoyed that we did not bring back everything in perfect condition. This just shows that even the WoL has a point were its enough. But the biggest take away: Even after that we continue on and still help people.

Again I think you put too much responsibility on the WoLs shoulder. We are not the one that made her into the person she was today, we are also not the one able to make decisions for her. Unlike Yugiri I also cant remember a evil look that we threw her and we acted kinda neutral around someone that was a sadistic murderer before the memory loss. Could you really say that most of us would be able to threat a mass murderer or tyrant with utter kindness if they lose their memory? Even when you witnessed them doing horrible things? I dare to say that most would be still hateful or at least neutral towards them. The same with the past thing. Maybe the WoL can understand her past and feel bad for her but still understand that this still makes her a monster. I mean go to the bad people of this world and look up their past and see that probably quite some had some bad events or horrible lifes. Now you can understand how they maybe turned that way but I would not feel sad for them right now because people have choices. I am quite sure that a lot of people in real life that get through horrible stuff dont turn into monsters like her.

Also its not that easy to just forget your past and your feeling just because of some good words. They kinda portrayed it quite realistically in there. That kindness did move her but in the end the past and what was done to her and what she has done cant just be deleted like that.

We also should not forget that we barely met her. Unlike Hien and Gosetsu we are barely in Doma and this is the second or third time we saw her after she came back and we only saw here a few short times then because of her running around and then all the stuff happening with Asahi. There was no time with single chats, there was no time to truly learn more about her. So for us this might be gut punching and emotional but for the WoL this might just hurt more because they know how it will hit Gosetsu. Because we knew her more as the murderer and had barely time with the new Tsuyu. And the WoL reacting more detached could just mean that they are not truly sure about this either. I mean we learned that Asahi has a bad plan, see how he is even a bigger monster than his sister, know that there might be a big trap, fear that any of her friends or the prisoners will get hurt or killed and also maybe have to reign in all the bad emotions towards Asahi. Then Yotsuyu turns into a primal and maybe next to all of these happenings this might just be the thing we can accept the most? From all these people she is the one we have the least emotional contact with and we also know that she might just have doomed Domas freedom. So in the end the WoL might be a bit sad but also maybe okay because its still a person that has done lots of horrible things. (Or SE did not want to give them too much reactions because not everyone would be sad/or "happy" about this)

[Remedi]

About Yotsuyu:

I have a hard time believing that this was all an act of Tsuyu at the end. I just believed that some parts came back earlier but she did not truly understand it. She ask them what she had done and said sorry for it. I mean they did tell her that she was horrible, deserves punishment and even Hien told them (while standing next to her..) that he tried to kill her and that the people dont need to fear her.

She did say that she remembers but at the same time she was acting still way too much like Tsuyu and we also know that more memories came back later thus she could not have remember it all.

I think that most of Yotsuyu was back after the meeting with Asahi and her parents. I think she still felt all the hatred and vengeance but also remembered the kindness of Gosetsu thus she remembered being Tsuyu. But Asahi threatens her and she might now that he will do everything to get her back. And maybe probably for the first time in a long while she feels conflicted. Maybe even seeing how the reasons that she used to do all those horrible things are slipping out of her fingers because even after shooting him and wanting him death, he showed her kindness and showed her that not everyone was like that and that maybe those people did not deserve what she has done to them. (The girls kindness in Namai probably helped with the conflict too)

So for her death seems to be solution. Put then her parents came and the old rage and hatred that may have been decreased a bit by the kindness emerged and she tells herself that the kindness was maybe just a lie and then she chooses to emprace her old self again but with the conflict probably still raging on which was shown in battle later.

I dont know if her scene before turning is truly an act or not. But I dont think it was mostly Tsuyu acting. I think that it was both of her sides which kinda is shown in the primal too. For me she was Yotsuyu back with all the hate and rage but also the kindness of Gosetsu.

In the end she chose vengeance, knowing that if we beat her, that she will die, so I also believe that she was trying to kill herself with that but still with a lot of her old negative emotions at heart which one over even with Gosetsu slaying Zenos and her attacking us even harder. She even says at the end that she thougth that this rage would go on but that she seemingly feels good for being able to kill the three worst people of her life and I think that its also then, when her rages goes away, that she also realizes the kindness again and maybe even truly realizes that this might hurt Gosetsu again.

A tragic tale but I think its too hard to really say if she was acting and what part she was action. Maybe she did or maybe she was consumed so much by rage after her parents speech that she snaps and truly means the things she are saying.

Re Yotsuyu:

It's possible too yes, I mean it's just an interpretation of what was displayed which I think other languages migth shed more clue, what I go by was her kinda out of character state after the defeat, she was kinda praising us and the other ppl. That said when she tried to kill her it's possible that it was Yotsuyu herself that felt shame over Gosetsu's kindness after all they went trough. So perhaps they right reading of it would be saying that there was a bit of both of her sides in her last act.
That said It's sad that only in the end she understood that the reason she felt always so hungry for vengeance was because she was direct her hate towards the wrong persons and that only the death of her brother would've really satisfied. I think that was a brilliant touch, though imho I'd say that Iceheart and Haurchefant ghosts appearing were a bit more strong in my opinion (well the whole 3.3 in my opinion was stronger as a MSQ simply for how strong the ending was and since we got no credits this time I'd say they ar enot considering 4.3 an ending either

[Alleo]

Re Yotsuyu:

It's possible too yes, I mean it's just an interpretation of what was displayed which I think other languages migth shed more clue, what I go by was her kinda out of character state after the defeat, she was kinda praising us and the other ppl. That said when she tried to kill her it's possible that it was Yotsuyu herself that felt shame over Gosetsu's kindness after all they went trough. So perhaps they right reading of it would be saying that there was a bit of both of her sides in her last act.
That said It's sad that only in the end she understood that the reason she felt always so hungry for vengeance was because she was direct her hate towards the wrong persons and that only the death of her brother would've really satisfied. I think that was a brilliant touch, though imho I'd say that Iceheart and Haurchefant ghosts appearing were a bit more strong in my opinion (well the whole 3.3 in my opinion was stronger as a MSQ simply for how strong the ending was and since we got no credits this time I'd say they ar enot considering 4.3 an ending either

About Yotsuyu and other languages:

I cant tell you the exact same words in the german language but I do remember that we had different choices at the end. She kinda ask us why we look at her like that, we should be happy that the good won again. Thus we could answer her that this would make Gosetsu sad or that yes the good side won (and hit me all but I chose the last one). So unlike in the english version, where you as the WoL feel sad that Tsuyu does not have a chance, you either feel bad for Gosetsu or that its good that she will die because she was still bad. Complete different intents imo.

Her answer when you chose the last one is the question if Gosetsu is seeing it like that too? (Kinda guilt tripping us that maybe this was not good.) And then she asks herself if he liked the Kaki. So for me it was a bit surprising to see the english version because the second one was so different and I am curious if the english or german one is the japanese version of it. (For me the german choices feel a bit better because we were not that sad and thus those two would fit) But thats just out of my memory and may not be 100% accurate.

[Remedi]

About Yotsuyu and other languages:

I cant tell you the exact same words in the german language but I do remember that we had different choices at the end. She kinda ask us why we look at her like that, we should be happy that the good won again. Thus we could answer her that this would make Gosetsu sad or that yes the good side won (and hit me all but I chose the last one). So unlike in the english version, where you as the WoL feel sad that Tsuyu does not have a chance, you either feel bad for Gosetsu or that its good that she will die because she was still bad. Complete different intents imo.

Her answer when you chose the last one is the question if Gosetsu is seeing it like that too? (Kinda guilt tripping us that maybe this was not good.) And then she asks herself if he liked the Kaki. So for me it was a bit surprising to see the english version because the second one was so different and I am curious if the english or german one is the japanese version of it. (For me the german choices feel a bit better because we were not that sad and thus those two would fit) But thats just out of my memory and may not be 100% accurate.

and the translation team strikes again.......sigh

[Guiballad]

After some time to mull it over, I came to a very different conclusion surrounding Yotsuyu's actions during 4.3. It's still very tragic - perhaps moreso than your interpretation - but a bit more hopeful, I think.

Yotsuyu never really came back. The "Yotsuyu" we see is, for the most part, Tsuyu playing Yotsuyu.

We know she regained her memories in Namai and when confronted with her parents. After delivering the persimmon Gosetsu wanted to him, she nearly commits suicide out of guilt for her past actions and feeling unworthy of Gosetsu and the others' kindness and mercy. She's then stopped by her parents, who continue to treat her like a burden and piece of property, only to kill them in a rage. Afterwards Yotsuyu plays out Asahi's assigned role in the tragedy until the very end, using the last of her strength to defy and kill him.

However... "Yotsuyu" seems to be trying too hard to play the role of the iron-heeled Witch of Doma. Before incarnating herself into Tsukuyomi she grandstands at length about how she's an Imperial citizen, and how she's going to make Doma suffer and pay both to fulfill her duty and for personal satisfaction. However, her actions as Tsukuyomi don't really support that being her true intent. Instead of attacking right away she waits patiently for the others to evacuate and for the Warrior of Light to charge her. After just a few moments of combat, she's so weakened that she requires external stimuli in the form of phantoms to power herself up, and even when trying to do that is stopped short by a phantom of Gosetsu holding off Zenos. After using her Nightbloom super, she seems to be fully aware and accepting of the fact the Warrior of Light is going to kill her - she feels she's beyond redemption, despite Gosetsu's protestations to the contrary. In the end she finishes off Asahi, letting cooler (and saner) heads prevail.

Yotsuyu knew everything that would happen, and she played it all to an ultimately good end she sacrificed her life for. She knew Asahi's plan (obviously), and she knew the Warrior of Light would be there. She knew that playing "Yotsuyu," claiming Imperial citizenship, would place the onus for the summoning on the Empire, and she knew (incarnate) summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She also knew Asahi would twist events on paper, claiming a Doman citizen was responsible, so saved the last of her strength to kill him and allow a clear version of the events to be relayed back to Garlemald - not only sparing Doma yet another bloody war, but exposing the nefarious elements of the Empire by sending the genuinely populist Garleans back with that correct record of events.

In short, Yotsuyu (or Tsuyu) wanted us to kill her because she didn't feel like she deserved the kindness and mercy Gosetsu and everyone else offered her after what she did, and knew that summoning would force the Warrior of Light to kill her. She played that to her advantage by declaring Imperial allegiance and saving the last of her strength to cut the head off the serpent running the game (though personal satisfaction was also a factor), ending the life she felt she didn't deserve to do it. Even with her memories returned Tsuyu had become her true persona, while "Yotsuyu" was just a mask she wore to deceive everyone into playing the parts she wanted them to. (Ironically the exact opposite of what so many were suspicious of.)

Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

Either way, the Warrior of Light is clearly not happy with how things turned out and enraged by Asahi's barbarism, so I do not agree with the conclusion that they are little more than a killing machine seeking thrills without scruples.

I don't agree 100% with everything said here, but this lends itself to a really interesting analysis

I'd go even a bit further and say the very design of her trial supports the ideia of Tsuyu being a stronger force in her decision making to a certain degree. While the transitional add phase with the appearance of the Goesetsu spectre is a very obvious nod that her time as Tsuyu truly changed her, the duality of light and dark that Tsukuyomi presents specially during her third phase is very fitting for the duality of Tsuyu and Yotsuyu and seems really symbolic at least to me and a neat little way to mix the symbology of the deity from whom the primal is based and the character's arc.

[Fenral]

[On Yotsuyu]
Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just my ego and naivete talking.

This is right after you said you were done, but I felt you'd want me to weigh in, given the circumstances.

I think you're trying really hard to find some sort of positive frame of reference for what happened to Tsuyu. Because you want there to be one. It's why FFXIV leaned so twelvesdamnned hard on the sacrifice angle in past cycles: it's easier to accept tragedy when we can find some reason to believe it was necessary.

But it wasn't necessary. Not in the least. Even with the things we learned by Echoing into Asahi, even with Alphinaud's new role as envoy, the end result is still less than what we would have gotten, which is the actual cessation of hostilities between Doma and Garlemald. Not only was Asahi's agreement never put in writing, the return trip was cut mercilessly short. All that's left is for someone on our side to find out that Alphi never made it to Garlemald and the partying is going to be cut way short.

I think Yotsuyu was just trying to make the best of a series of really bad hands. She didn't get to stay as Tsuyu, but if she had to go back to being Yotsuyu, she could at least kill those assholes who made her that way. She didn't get to reign as Tsukuyomi, but she could at least kill that wretch who used her. It's just what she always did.

But ultimately it's about what you want to believe, and what it takes for you to carry on.

[Iscah]

Re. Yotsuyu

But it wasn't necessary. Not in the least. Even with the things we learned by Echoing into Asahi, even with Alphinaud's new role as envoy, the end result is still less than what we would have gotten, which is the actual cessation of hostilities between Doma and Garlemald. Not only was Asahi's agreement never put in writing, the return trip was cut mercilessly short. All that's left is for someone on our side to find out that Alphi never made it to Garlemald and the partying is going to be cut way short.

You seem to be assuming here that the peace deal would have gone ahead successfully if not for Yotsuyu's interruption, but I suspect that's not the case. Not when the offer of a peace deal is an element of whatever scheme Elidibus is orchestrating.

I don't believe they ever intended to go through with the peace deal, but rather to offer it while arranging circumstances that could be blamed on Doma and then say that the deal is off.

Goading Yotsuyu to breaking point and convincing her to summon a primal was part of the plan - but one that was unreliable if her memories couldn't be triggered, so there had to be a backup plan if Asahi had no choice but to go through with the peace deal and prisoner trade.

It seems that the attack on the airship was that backup plan - and "the prince" had ordered the ground troops to leave none alive. (Perhaps even Asahi would have been expendable at this point.)

No survivors means nobody to contradict the story that it was the Domans who sabotaged the airship, killing the Garlean ambassador and their released prisoners, and voiding the peace deal.

Fortunately for us, Shadowhunter was a completely unforseen wrench in the works.

On a side note, I saved footage of that last solo event battle, and can rewatch it on my PS4, but it gives an error code if I try to copy that particular video file to USB. It seems they may have locked it down so people can't upload the footage to Youtube? I assume this is what they were talking about when they said that we'd have to pay attention because we couldn't revisit some things.