And so it begins again

[Miste]

A very small percentage of the player base actually come on the forums, and an even smaller portion are actually from Chaos, and an even smaller portion actively main WHM.

Yes, exactly, and you yourself are an even smaller percentage of one single player with an anecdotal experience and no proof that a large amount of groups are locking out WHM solely because it is WHM. So you actually defeated yourself with this response.

Yes, the other Chaos posters who replied are also anecdotal experiences, but if there was a "large amount" of groups excluding WHM like you claimed in your OP...doesn't that mean they should have seen some of what you saw by now??

They cast a lot of doubt on your claims..especially since you have zero evidence.

I think it's fairly obvious when a group is replacing members, it looks similar to the SS you posted. These groups were new, ordered, several roles specified, no gaps in the party list.

Just because there are no gaps in the party list doesn't mean no one left the PF and needs to be replaced. You are just making assumptions again. I told you unless you sent a /tell to the leader and they specifically told you "I'm locking out WHM because AST is better" then you have zero context.

[Yuyuka3]

Yes, exactly, and you yourself are an even smaller percentage of one single player with an anecdotal experience and no proof that a large amount of groups are locking out WHM solely because it is WHM. So you actually defeated yourself with this response.

Yes, the other Chaos posters who replied are also anecdotal experiences, but if there was a "large amount" of groups excluding WHM like you claimed in your OP...doesn't that mean they should have seen some of what you saw by now??

I remember being told at the end of 3.X that I'm seeing things when I said WHMs are getting excluded, but apparently now it's common knowledge.

Btw, I just got asked why I'm not playing AST instead of WHM. Again.

[Lunaxia]

etc. etc..

A single player who observed the groups in the Chaos PF, which is more representative of the general atmosphere there than several Aether posters telling me I imagined it. I have proof, I've seen it. Again, if you choose not to believe me, that is your business.

etc. etc. etc. etc. ...

I do have evidence, otherwise I wouldn't have posted, I just don't have any that satisfies you, and that's not my problem. If those posters have had more luck in PF, that's great, but I've witnessed WHMs being on the outside once again, gradually, but notably stronger with this patch.

snip

I did not take any, admittedly I should have foreseen being called a troll, a liar, paranoid and being told my own eyes are somehow wrong. Though I'm sure if I had, they'd have been discredited somehow.

snip

The other night I almost changed my search info to "No, I won't switch to AST" after the same thing happened. I want my cane, all right?!

[Miste]

I do have evidence, otherwise I wouldn't have posted, I just don't have any that satisfies you, and that's not my problem.

Personal anecdotes are not evidence.

You don't understand that you have zero factual evidence to prove your statement that "a large amount of groups are excluding WHMs."

It has nothing to do with what satisfies me...you just objectively have absolutely no proof of your claims.

The only way to get proof would be to do a study and find some factual data.

Analyze the PF all day and night for a week gathering data from ALL PFs ever listed during that week.
Send /tells to any PF leaders who have locked healer slots to AST or SCH, and ask them why.
Record all interactions, all PFs, and all findings.
Compile their answers to see who in fact is excluding WHM simply because it is WHM.
Find a percentage of total PFs that excluded WHM for that week.

Then you would have factual evidence.

I've witnessed WHMs being on the outside once again, gradually, but notably stronger with this patch

WHM and SCH have more parses than AST so far for the entire tier of sigma savage and that includes all data centers. So the raiding community is making plenty use of WHM.

If WHM is well represented in savage then who would actually exclude them from a simple EX primal? If anyone did, they are not people you wanna waste your time with because they obviously have a screw loose.

[Lunaxia]

snip

I didn't say it's being locked out of the majority content, I said WHM is becoming irrelevant to the point of being excluded in certain scenarios once again, which is a valid concern to have with a class. "well it's still ok" isn't much consolation.

Regardless of how few you may have seen, the fact they exist is a problem. The balance is off when it's a case of guaranteed spot vs. "uhm fine I guess but can you change?"

ha

It is to satisfy you, as I've already stated I don't particularly care if you believe me or not. No amount of demanding "factual evidence" I'm not obligated to provide you is going to change what I've seen. As I've said, believe me, don't believe me, it's immaterial. Really, if you're so certain I'm lying, why does this concern you so much?

The groups cropped up with this patch, I'm assuming with the recent changes.

[Beelhi]

I didn't say it's being locked out of the majority content, I said WHM is becoming irrelevant to the point of being excluded in certain scenarios once again, which is a valid concern to have with a class. "well it's still ok" isn't much consolation.

Same thing, same meaning. It is not a valid concern because the few people that don't want to have WHM have the right to do so, it doesn't take away that none of us have seen WHM being excluded, with the exeption for a few parse-runs. If you want to talk about a class becoming irrelevant and left out in PF talk to a SAM, they had more issues than you believe WHM has now.
It is NOT a fact that it is a problem because then you would have people complaining about it here, reddit, and wherever. Meanwhile a majority of the parties i look at when i want to join something (current Sav/EX) already have a WHM in them.