Can we do something about Secret of the Lily II now?

[Tridus]

It's really funny, because in HW there was a similarly useless trait. A random chance to save half MP on Medica. But it was unreliable and unoticeable, just like this trait, and was removed in SB.
I guess this will be the same exact situation repeated...

Amusingly, that trait would be an upgrade over SotL2. You'll actually benefit from a cheap medica sometimes even if it's not very noticeable.

SotL2 has all kinds of problems, in that none of it really works:
1. It requires an RNG proc on an RNG proc, making it unlikely to happen.
2. It can only trigger on spells that WHMs don't want to spam in the first place, making it even more unlikely to happen.
3. If it does trigger, what it does isn't particularly desirable and is so trivial that it's barely perceptible.

Using the numbers previously assumed in here of a 25% crit rate, it's got a 1/20 chance of going off from a Cure II. I can go through entire experts without casting Cure II 10 times, depending on how squishy the tank is/how big they're pulling. The odds are pretty high that it never triggers at all. If it does, who cares? I'm unlikely to even notice 5 seconds on Asylum. (I remember the one time I did notice it and went "huh? oh, right, that trait exists...")

It is a situational skill

And this situational skill has it cd shortened by another situational skill.

And this makes it worse than the WHM version... how?

Which is why AST trait is, in a sens, worse than WHM trait. Because at the very least the lilies affect something you use all the time. While it might be useless in controlled scenario when you simply farm the boss, during learning having access to more abilities is rarely a bad thing. It is also during learning that you're most likely to use cureII (because we have less gear and people do mistake).

The WHM trait in question (SotL2) doesn't give lilies. It reduces the CD of Assize or Asylum by 5 seconds, 20% of the time Cure II crits. That's somewhere around a 5% chance when you cast Cure II to get 5 seconds off one of two abilities. Comparatively, Hyper Lightspeed gives double the CDR with a 100% chance to activate. That means it is doing more, more often, and more reliably. Even if the last part is a wash (if neither care about the CDR), one of these is objectively better than the other.

But hey, want to trade? I'd take 10s off every time I cast DB and you can have a 5% chance to get 5s every time you cast Benefic II. And lets not even talk about Quickened Aetherflow, which is vastly superior to either of them.

Finally, last point. I forgot that cureII gives a lilies with 100% chance. Which effectively support your first say "People don't even pay attention to the mechanic"
I don't even know what procs them XD (it's my bad but yeah I don't really look at how many lilies I have)

Cure I also has a 100% chance to give lilies.

[Sylvain]

The WHM trait in question (SotL2) doesn't give lilies. It reduces the CD of Assize or Asylum by 5 seconds, 20% of the time Cure II crits. That's somewhere around a 5% chance when you cast Cure II to get 5 seconds off one of two abilities. Comparatively, Hyper Lightspeed gives double the CDR with a 100% chance to activate. That means it is doing more, more often, and more reliably. Even if the last part is a wash (if neither care about the CDR), one of these is objectively better than the other.

God I really need to read these traits tooltip again.

Fine, SotL2 is utter trash beyond redemption.XD

I still maintain that HyperLightspeed is a bad trait.
But at this point only SCH has a good trait (a boring one, granted, but 15sec on Eatherflows is not bad)

The lilies mechanic received so little love from the community that I would expect some decent rework for 5.0
But for AST, I think 4.3 Hyperlightspeed is the only rework we'll ever get on that trait.

[Tridus]

God I really need to read these traits tooltip again.

Fine, SotL2 is utter trash beyond redemption.XD

I still maintain that HyperLightspeed is a bad trait.
But at this point only SCH has a good trait (a boring one, granted, but 15sec on Eatherflows is not bad)

Yep, that's fair. It's not a zero sum game. One trait needing work doesn't mean another one doesn't also need work.

Quickened Aetherflow is great. It's not very exciting, but it's reliable and makes a difference. If you removed it, there would be a real impact on how SCH plays.

If you removed SotL2, how long would it be before anyone even noticed it was gone?

The lilies mechanic received so little love from the community that I would expect some decent rework for 5.0
But for AST, I think 4.3 Hyperlightspeed is the only rework we'll ever get on that trait.

It's hard to say what they plan to do in 5.0, but yeah. There will be displeasure if they leave lilies alone. They're only getting away with it now because WHM is fine without it (which really proves that it was tacked on to have a job gauge). It's too bad because it's a cool looking gauge, but mechanically it's irrelevant.

Personally I'd flip the whole thing around and make lilies something you gain from using oGCDs and have them boost the potency of your GCD heals instead. People would care about a boosted Regen. Or, have them usable for DPS, like 3 lilies gives you an oGCD high potency nuke to help pDPS on a job that needs that since it has zero rDPS.

[Naryoril]

One change that should be easy to implement is to gain lilies on any GCD heal spell. Maybe make SotL II to do exactly that. It would make lilies and the useless trait more meaningful.