Paladin had a good run RIP

[Karl0217]

How exactly is this an issue (let alone the biggest)?

Well, we could answer that with another question: what's wrong with people who just got their beginner's permit driving like race car and stunt drivers on the public highway? Because that is exactly the kind of situation with the average duty/party finder party and the meta. Some times it works and the results are impressive; however, most of the time the party crashes and burns. To give one example, big pulls and AoE spam are meta. Ever have somebody try to do a big pull in the first room of Aurum Vale in the duty finder?

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Well, we could answer that with another question: what's wrong with people who just got their beginner's permit driving like race car and stunt drivers on the public highway?

Well, you're likely breaking the law by doing so, as well as endangering yourself and the other drivers.

Because that is exactly the kind of situation with the average duty/party finder party and the meta.

Except it's not? Your implication that meta composition and strategies necessarily expose players to great risk is unfounded; it's often the opposite. Not only that, comparing it with the risk of injury or death in real life is plainly ridiculous.

The main issues I see are players being pressured/forced to play jobs that they may not want to and players overly relying on the community to solve/optimize encounters for them.

Following the meta will generally make the game easier, though it may not make it more fun.

[Tint]

Ever have somebody try to do a big pull in the first room of Aurum Vale in the duty finder?

i try to do small pulls there, but somehow i always end up with basically the whole room on me xD

- i blame the DDs and healers who position themself bad and healing / attacking too early and pulling all the ranged and patrolling mobs while i am trying to pull everything back in the direction of the entrance ^^

[Karl0217]

Except it's not? Your implication that meta composition and strategies necessarily expose players to great risk is unfounded; it's often the opposite. Not only that, comparing it with the risk of injury or death in real life is plainly ridiculous.

The main issues I see are players being pressured/forced to play jobs that they may not want to and players overly relying on the community to solve/optimize encounters for them.

Following the meta will generally make the game easier, though it may not make it more fun.

Seriously? I make a analogy between two things (playing a multiplayer game/driving a car) to illustrate that getting people with beginners' knowledge and experience to try and perform at expert status tends to lead more to failure and unnecessary hardship for all involved. Saying that one has more serious real world consequences does nothing to detract from that point, in fact it is a red herring.

I gave one example, big pulls and Aoe spam, that is meta that a lot of times doesn't make the game easier or more fun because either the tank or the healer, or both, don't know how to handle it, or the dps never touch the AoE button, or that particular area or dungeon has a enemy composition that doesn't make it a good idea. I have seen people bully warriors in chat when they want to be the off-tank or don't feel comfortable being the main tank because warrior main tank is meta. I have seen warriors and paladins drop tank stance in Brayflox and Haukke even though they don't have a dps stance at that level, have trouble holding aggro and their damage mitigation tool kit is somewhat limited at that level because tank dps output is meta. I can go with these examples for awhile.

What makes the game easier and more fun is not blindly following the meta. It is effective coordination with your team mates and taking into account specific characteristics of each dungeon and trial.

[DaulBan]

snip

Here's the rub: Following the meta is almost never a bad idea because baked into the concepts of tanking and healing that are followed in it are a general understanding that you aren't supposed to be dying. Saying 'someone turned off tank stance in a leveling dungeon and died' isn't a damning inditement against the meta, all you're saying is that you once saw a tank do something really really dumb and pay for it.

The Meta is all about doing as much damage as possible. Baked into it is the implication that people should have an opportunity to maximize their DPS and thus they shouldn't be dying. Death isn't meta, period, so if a tank died or let someone else die that's not meta by the definition of the thing.

[Awha]

Death isn't meta, period, so if a tank died or let someone else die that's not meta by the definition of the thing.

Ahh so that is why DRK is not meta it is all because of living dead. This makes perfect sense.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Seriously? I make a analogy between two things (playing a multiplayer game/driving a car) to illustrate that getting people with beginners' knowledge and experience to try and perform at expert status tends to lead more to failure and unnecessary hardship for all involved. Saying that one has more serious real world consequences does nothing to detract from that point, in fact it is a red herring.

It's not a red herring; your analogy is fundamentally flawed.

You are expected, if not encouraged, to fail in a video game. Now, it's a little bit different in an MMORPG, since you risk wasting other people's time, but it comes with the territory.

[Tint]

however, now that the patchnotes are out...

RIP Paladin

[Otorinth]

however, now that the patchnotes are out...

RIP Paladin

Paladin is going nowhere anytime soon.

[Capn_Goggles]

however, now that the patchnotes are out...

RIP Paladin

The changes are a small step in the right direction, but Paladin still has the advantage. The problem is that while the adjustments are nice, they don't actually address any core issues like stance-locked abilities and effects, living dead being borderline useless to outright detrimental, and their mitigation toolkit being heavily lopsided toward tankbusters.