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  1. #81
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
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    Riyah Arpeggio
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    Exodus
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    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    Just because you find that the concepts of a "good player" or "bad player" are dumb doesn't deny their existence or deny others from having certain standards and upholding those standards.
    It's all about what other people do, though. Your example was like that. The whole thing is about what other people do or don't do. And if you tried to look at how to be good, you'd be following people's contradictory and sometimes unattainable ways of that. I think that's dumb for the reasons I give, and tends to lead to less fun because it's always chasing external validation. I didn't like seeing Kaiva despair over how other people defined good in that post a while back, and i'd rather people just focus on fun than good sometimes. Again if game mastery is legitimately fun for you, go for it. But if its more about what others do, its doomed to failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    You want everyone to just ignore these factors and play the game and have fun, which I guess could be said that they are your standards, however, you're still not going to convince anyone here that we should just casually ignore these things in favor of "just have fun guys". A person can be bad and enjoy the game, great...that doesn't mean I have to enjoy them being bad in order to enjoy my playtime either..
    That all goes out the window when it's you dying five times.

    because, you know, everyone does that at some point. Did you think it was hilarious to lie on the floor when you screwed up that one mechanic? For me I think it was the puddles from the dun scaith plant boss. I couldn't actually see them at all the first time i did it, and ate every one. Got called out on it too. But I didn't think it was hilarious; if anything i was WTF. It took another run for me to see them, and then i did fine. The risk in having those standards is that you focus too much on others and how they injure you, and that's what i see when people talk about it. The person hates runs taking a long time or wiping; the other hates being called wrong or being kicked for failing. And, well, i'd rather not play a game where everyone is a potential hindrance, I guess.
    (0)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 05-11-2018 at 08:14 AM.

  2. #82
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
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    Ul'dah
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    Soma Kagami
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    Sargatanas
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    It's all about what other people do, though. Your example was like that. The whole thing is about what other people do or don't do. And if you tried to look at how to be good, you'd be following people's contradictory and sometimes unattainable ways of that. I think that's dumb for the reasons I give, and tends to lead to less fun because it's always chasing external validation. I didn't like seeing Kaiva despair over how other people defined good in that post a while back, and i'd rather people just focus on fun than good sometimes. Again if game mastery is legitimately fun for you, go for it. But if its more about what others do, its doomed to failure.
    I don't think Kaiva is despairing as much as you think that she might be over how other people defined what a good player was. She realizes this is a forum after all and heads will butt and that people will not always see eye to eye. She even said that this thread was about people's personal opinions and that no one else HAS to follow anybody else's opinion about what a good player is, she even lamented that there were a lot of good responses so far in the thread. She was taking a break for being too critical of herself and going through a lot of personal things in her life also, which is fine, people get like that sometimes with any game or hobby, it happens. You're trying to be a voice for someone that doesn't technically need a voice, at least, from what I can see. She's not taking a break because she's despairing about over how other people define what a "good player" is.

    Quote Originally Posted by KaivaC View Post
    Good responses thus far. I was just curious. Also going through a lot of things in my personal life, so it's been kinda beaten into me to take a break and stop being over-critical of myself. So, I'm taking a break. As for the few questions about what qualifies as a good player...there is no single answer to this. It's your own personal opinion on what a good player is. You don't have to follow anybody else's definition on this: it's what you personally feel is a good player in FFXIV.
    I mean, she states it, right there what the point of the thread was. Of which, you just say earlier that there's no point and everyone should just play the game to have fun, which is all fine and dandy, but fun is subjective for everyone. I just find it mind boggling how you keep missing the main point of the thread's reason for discussion over and over again.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sigma-Astra; 05-11-2018 at 08:46 AM.

  3. #83
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
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    Riyah Arpeggio
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    Fun is "you centered." Good is "other people centered." When you talk about good players, you are talking about what others do and focusing on them, and that is not healthy. I used Kaiva as an example because they did just that in the past and it was pretty painful. But I don't think focusing on good or bad in general is healthy for anyone; there are so many arguments and so much bad blood with others when we view them like this. I don't think discussing it really works in the end because it ends up with others bashing others "oh, everyone in DF is bad baddies," "no they are not you are just elitist" etc.

    I don't really like the whole premise of the post, and that's why I reacted the way it did. Kaiva as an author heightened this a little, because it was still fresh in my mind from back then. I mean they work hard and clear savage, and their goals are self-mastery, why do you worry about others so much? How can what others think about what a person should do really help you on this?
    (0)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 05-11-2018 at 08:55 AM.

  4. #84
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
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    Soma Kagami
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    Sargatanas
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    Fun is "you centered." Good is "other people centered." When you talk about good players, you are talking about what others do and focusing on them, and that is not healthy. I used Kaiva as an example because they did just that in the past and it was pretty painful. But I don't think focusing on good or bad in general is healthy for anyone; there are so many arguments and so much bad blood with others when we view them like this. I don't think discussing it really works in the end because it ends up with others bashing others "oh, everyone in DF is bad baddies," "no they are not you are just elitist" etc.
    ....So, you don't understand the point of the thread's discussion and can't add onto what you'd qualify as a good or bad player. Okay then. I'm tapping out of this discussion before I'm forced to use up all of my posts for the day on something so silly as this.
    (0)

  5. #85
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
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    Riyah Arpeggio
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    No, I just have opinions other people dislike. It doesn't matter what a good player is, because everyone here will define it differently based on their needs. If I think a good player is something, that just shows what I value, it has no worth to others. Everyone here is just defining a bad player as what they personally dislike. If you think it's bad I don't reach a certain numerical DPS target, and don't do the hardest content in the game, and I think it's good to take it easy and enjoy the various game content casually, no one is right or wrong and there is nothing to be gained from it. If someone does the bare minimum of combat in this game and does nothing but fish, and thinks a good player is someone who has all the big fish, the same. If someone RPS the whole game and barely gets one job to 70, that too.

    If you realize that, then there is no point to threads like these, because there is no way to reconcile these conflicting ways to play. It boils down to people trying to argue one way is more objective than the other over time, or clustering in liked groups against unfavored ones. In the end, it's really just you; all of these different motivations don't help and all that's left is the individual pursuit of fun. I guess its a bit too complex point to argue on forums, though.
    (1)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 05-11-2018 at 09:12 AM.

  6. #86
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
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    Soma Kagami
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    Sargatanas
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    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    Everyone here is just defining a bad player as what they personally dislike.
    This just shows and proves to me that you weren't really reading a lot of people's posts or replies to the thread and I'm just going to leave it at that.
    (2)

  7. #87
    Player
    FelixDaCat's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    Hereford U.K
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    Felix Dacat
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    Phoenix
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    Red Mage Lv 90
    To answer the OP's question, I would say a good player is aware of their surroundings, knows at least roughly how to do the dungeon or raid they are about to do, asks questions if they are unsure on how to proceed the next section/boss, has an understanding how to get the most out of their char (rotations and cool down priority), has the correct type of gems in their equipment and finally is will to listen to any advice given to them by other players if they are having a problem beating something in the game and a simple alteration could fix it (this is a bit tricky to know if you're being told something truthful.

    I always try be polite to my fellow party members and will always warn the group if I am rusty with tactics on a dungeon if I've not done it for a long time. (I tend to take a couple months break at a time, so I do need the odd refresh on some of the least common dungeons when doing a rootlet via the party finder)
    (2)

  8. #88
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    I'm just going to chime in here - the whole point behind the post was to get others' perspectives on the topic. Yes, admittedly, I have believed that the only way for me personally to be a good player, I absolutely needed to have orange/purple parses and clear every bit of Savage content. By that definition alone, I have failed to be a good player. But I also play with a lot of others who either do not do Savage, or don't really care about parses, and I personally consider them good players. I have played with players who don't get out of grey parses, and I still consider them good players. The standards that I impose on myself are exclusive to me, and how I personally feel I should be to consider myself a good player - not others. But I wanted to know how others defined good players.

    That's where I'm coming in and saying that there really are no wrong answers when it comes to stating your own personal definitions on what a good player is. It's a good topic to discuss, and I have read every reply. Everybody has their own standards. Figured it would be a good time to open a discussion about it. Really, the only time I consider someone as bad is if they are in lvl 70 content and don't have a basic understanding of their role. Or are just trolling.
    (3)

  9. #89
    Player RitsukoSonoda's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Kugane (No that red crayon is totally legitimate) >.>
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    Character
    Ritsuko Sonoda
    World
    Ultros
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    Samurai Lv 90
    A player having the ability to actively think, analyze a situation and respond appropriately, and learn from mistakes. Someone that doesn't have to read guides repeatedly before doing new content and doesn't have to repeatedly do the same thing 10K times to commit keystrokes to muscle memory before they can clear content... maybe I'm asking too much of you kids... >.>
    (2)

  10. #90
    Player
    FelixDaCat's Avatar
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    Felix Dacat
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    Phoenix
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    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KaivaC View Post
    Snipped
    I think what it comes down to like others have mentioned, is what is a SKILLED player and what is a GOOD player. You can be one, without being the other and often people believe that being a really skilled/experienced player, automatically equals to that person being a good player. I think you can be a really good player, without having the skills/experience required to have done the hard/savage content in the game.

    But it is a very subjective thing like you said, where there is many different interpretations of what counts in making you one. I think it's right to expect a certain standard from not just yourself, but the people you are in a party with. Normally when something is not going smoothly, it is a good player who is prepared to ask and listen to the other members "what am I doing wrong and how do I fix it?".
    (4)

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