Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Metalwrath]

And yet it has over 70 likes. More than double the amount that dont see it that way. A forum is a minority of the playerbase but it seems that more people might see this as P2W than those that dont. At least with those that visit the forum. Its sad that something like that is seen as a joke even though its far away from trolling and even have lots of reasonings. You could just simply ignore it, if its just a joke for you.

.

Over 70 likes is literally nothing.Even though this forum is the extreme minority of the games playerbase if you consider the amount of forum users its still evident that only a very niche amount of players actually think it's pay2win.Even look at reddit which has so much more users than the forums and generally a more reliable source devs use for feedback on the game.Most dont seem bothered about it either.
Reason why is most know better or simply dont care as it wont affect them anyway.

[Reynhart]

So since there is no official rank for savage does that mean savage also has no win thus even if they introduce gear with stats or something else that just give an advantage its not P2W?

From the game PoV yes, but the community made its official and universally shared race from the very beginning, so you can't really ignore it when adding things to the game.

People can and will create their own goals..and if someone else can reach this goal faster than them because of retainers than the one that created their own goal is in an disadvantage.

You'd still know mostly nothing about how other people progress in this goal. For all you know, the servers can already have dozens of characters with capped gils on every chracter and retainers, that already have no impact on the goal you set for yourself. Besides, as opposed to new items that get released every patch, racing for gils doesn't have a "starting point" apart from the moment you loging for the first time. So, if that was a shared race, coming to the game late is a handicap by itself.

And, again, if there's no shared race, what ohers do has no impact on what you manage to achieve by yourself and you'll still deserve praise for it.

EDIT for daily limit :

But wouldnt that make it acceptable for SE to put crafter and gathering gear into the mog station that would be comparable with high end crafter gear including materia? Because if there is no race, no winning, then that would be fine right?

From a pure race point of view, it wouldn't be a big deal, yes.
BUT, from a commitment point of view, it would send a totally different message. If SE was the one to provide the "achievement" for money without requiring any actual playtime for you, the game itself would diminish the value of your achievement. That's the difference between having more retainers whom you could give more items you obtained to sell thus earning more gils...and buying gils. If you don't already commit to farm gils, the retainer itself will offer nothing.

That's also why I can't understand people buying Savage runs. Unless you participate in world first race, no one really cares if you cleared it or not, so the only person you cheat is yourself.

[Remedi]

what ohers do has no impact on what you manage to achieve by yourself.

Another point is idd the fact that you can pretty much play this game as a single player, most of the times you level crafters simply to not be subject to other ppl prices, which is especially true since SB simplified crafting in a never before seen way.
in HW you were forced to rely on others because everything was a specialist recipe at one point in time, you could only have 3 specialist tokens AND swapping specialization had a steep cost, also the first crafting set was job based which coupled with the less than stellar avaibility of crafting materias led to ppl beign unable to craft everything by themselves and needing of reliying on others to craft since recipes required different kind of materials from multiple specializations.

Nowadays you have an omnicrafting set, a much simplier way to get materias, 3 specialist changes a week for basically free, no caps on scrips and so on.
You don't even need to use the MB anymore as a crafter

[Alleo]

Over 70 likes is literally nothing.Even though this forum is the extreme minority of the games playerbase if you consider the amount of forum users its still evident that only a very niche amount of players actually think it's pay2win.Even look at reddit which has so much more users than the forums and generally a more reliable source devs use for feedback on the game.Most dont seem bothered about it either.
Reason why is most know better or simply dont care as it wont affect them anyway.

My point was that the OP has at least quite some likes which would not happen if most would think about this as a joke thread. And the point still stands that the OP has more likes than the post that is against the OP. Also there are quite some threads recently that have quite the likes and that are against the new app and/or coins. Heck one is over 200 likes. This is a lot for our forum. Honestly I dont remember many threads that are reaching the +100 or more like amounts.

Reddit did discuss coins and app when the live letter went live and more people seemed to dislike it than like it. Yet this topic is mostly about retainers, something that is already quite longer in the game. That reddit does not talk about that right now is normal.

(Also reddit had a thread against Eureka with I think over 1000 likes, maybe even nearly 2000. Yet the devs still did not react on that.)

From the game PoV yes, but the community made its official and universally shared race from the very beginning, so you can't really ignore it when adding things to the game.

You'd still know mostly nothing about how other people progress in this goal. For all you know, the servers can already have dozens of characters with capped gils on every chracter and retainers, that already have no impact on the goal you set for yourself. Besides, as opposed to new items that get released every patch, racing for gils doesn't have a "starting point" apart from the moment you loging for the first time. So, if that was a shared race, coming to the game late is a handicap by itself.

And, again, if there's no shared race, what ohers do has no impact on what you manage to achieve by yourself and you'll still deserve praise for it.

But wouldnt that make it acceptable for SE to put crafter and gathering gear into the mog station that would be comparable with high end crafter gear including materia? Because if there is no race, no winning, then that would be fine right?

[Adeacia]

From my personal view, I don't consider the app to be pay to win. That doesn't mean I approve of it though (I don't).

I would pay a one time fee to access these features without an issue. It being another sub is where the problem lies.

The only way pay to win would happen here, in my view, is if they sold gear or materia directly in the mog station. Not to forget about various stat boosts and Gil itself.

At the same time I don't care about trying to make tons of Gil. My Gil total barely ever budges. I've had about 3 mil for a very long time now. I don't bother getting more since I don't even use it for much.

[Solarra]

what ohers do has no impact on what you manage to achieve by yourself.

Except when it comes to crafting, gathering and selling on the MB it absolutely does. Bots hurt gatherers for example and while the advantage is not so obvious, someone with more retainers has much more opportunities to sell than someone who doesn't with the added bonus of cheap materials or crystals brought back from ventures.

You don't even need to use the MB anymore as a crafter

Well while technically true, that would make about as much sense as gearing up my battleclass, melding that gear for the best stats and then not touching the raids or Ex Primals. Admittedly, I don't need to buy stuff from the MB to gear up if I chose to invest my time instead, but then retainers speed up the process and the more you have the bigger your advantage.
The whole point of sinking all that time, effort and/or gil for me and a lot of other people, is to make a profit on the MB. For people like us, retainers are PtW, whether we admit it or not.

[Remedi]

Well while technically true, that would make about as much sense as gearing up my battleclass, melding that gear for the best stats and then not touching the raids or Ex Primals. Admittedly, I don't need to buy stuff from the MB to gear up if I chose to invest my time instead, but then retainers speed up the process and the more you have the bigger your advantage.
The whole point of sinking all that time, effort and/or gil for me and a lot of other people, is to make a profit on the MB. For people like us, retainers are PtW, whether we admit it or not.

Many ppl actually do gear up and all without touching raids and as such some ppl level up some crafters simply to not having to rely on others it's far less uncommon than ppl think.

[Tridus]

How is that a competitive goal ?

D&D is a cooperative game at its heart, but if one player slips the DM a $20 and suddenly has a +5 corrosive burst holy keen scimitar with 1/day Miracle, the other players are likely to be asking some questions.

P2W doesn't require a competitive focused game. It applies to any game where paying money lets you get around rules or limits that other players are forced to adhere to.

[Vstarstruck]

Yoshida said for a very long time that he had planned for this sort of cash shop model to come along, and he said "no pay to win". I guess that's as close to a response as you're going to get on the matter.

does anyone know where and when he said this exactly? since now we are getting pay to win in 4.3?

[Rinuko]

does anyone know where and when he said this exactly? since now we are getting pay to win in 4.3?

Was said when they introduced the cash shop and no, premium plan isnt p2w.