All Greed on Alliance loot

[Zojha]

I don't remember seeing anyone complaining about getting loot from alliance raids.

Well, apparently there has been a demand for a change that allows you to get gear for your alt easier while on your main, so you don't need to run the place too often. The keypoints of the request are: Being able to get alt-gear while on the main, not having to run the place often.

The issue is that the "solution" they chose is once again badly thought out, lazy and perhaps worst of all, doesn't even achieve the desired result.
It's like they're playing that "corrupt a wish" forum game.

[Remedi]

I don't remember seeing anyone complaining about getting loot from alliance raids. But with this change in the works, we definitely will.

There has been in the past but not exactly for this reason, it was more about the RNG, that said I keep telling that the reward system doesn't really work anymore if they keep as is.
Personally thanks to eureka, crafting and savage I was not planning on getting any gear from the 24 anymore.
This change just cemented my decision, I'll get my weekly token and I'll move on

[Fyce]

You get one token per cleared run. This token has then a daily limit and SE just have to pin down a number for each part of the gear set. Done

Keep it to the most recent raid thus people would still need to run older ones more times thanks to glamour.

And on top of that you keep it fair with tanks still being the only one that can need on tank gear and people can just use the job they love the most if they dont feel like going into this with the necessary other job and get their stuff with tokens. (Or a lucky greed roll if the other person does not need it)

With this system:
- Doing multiple runs in a day is now completly useless. Someone with a lot of time will not be able to obtain what they want by going in multiple time in the same day. This is aggravated if that player is also impacted by the next issue.
- It forces people to play one of the longest content in the game (especially during release time when wipes often happen) every single day. Someone who can only play on the weekends will fall behind by 4 or 5 tokens a week. For a "catch up" content, that's pretty bad.
- It's pretty much a progress bar, which is one of the things the most criticized in MMORPG for being completly bland and unfun. "Do task X times, go buy reward". I know some people don't see the "fun" aspect as important even though it is, so I won't get too much into it.

While your idea is nice on first glance... the underlying issues are extremely impactful. And not in a good way.
So, again, token systems are far from flawless. This one is actually pretty detrimental to a lot of players.

Let us buy one piece of gear with the weekly coin. Those who are already equipped with 260 tome gear can upgrade it as usual and those who need the catch up gear can buy an extra piece of alliance raid gear per week.

While this would add another nice option for people who have jobs they'd like to gear up, it doesn't really solve the issue being discussed of the "all greed" for chests. I mean, if I need multiple healer 260 pieces to gear my alt, I won't roll on something else that might drop in chests simply because I can buy one with my weekly token.
So yeah, nice suggestion, but doesn't solve the main issue.

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Keep the ideas coming though. I think I made my point about token systems not being as easy as a solution as people think.
However, there is actually at least one token system which pretty much answers what people are concerned about without drastically changing the outcome. I want to see if you guyz can figure it out (a way of keeping the thread alive while being constructive). The only downside this system would have is the same as something we already had during one of the relic step. It's linked to the perception of failures in a random system. But it's something completly bearable.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Too many people complained about players using Need for drops to use for glamor or allied seals or retainer equipment over players that needed the gear for upgrades. I can't even bring myself to be mad anymore. Those players asked SE to fix the problem. They did in the only way they could without changing more of the game. It stinks but this is a good lesson in why its not always a good idea to ask a company to fix community created problems.

People wanted fair, they got fair now.

Actually, no. JP runs Alliance differently compared to us; prioritizing their mains to maximize contribution. Apparently, there were frequent complaints regarding loot hence the change. It had nothing whatsoever to do with people wanting Company Seals lest they make this change universal.

A simple solution is lifting the token system from EX Primals. You run x amount per week, and either purchase the item of your choosing or get lucky beforehand, thus not needing to run as many times the subsequent week.

[Enla]

A simple solution is lifting the token system from EX Primals. You run x amount per week, and either purchase the item of your choosing or get lucky beforehand, thus not needing to run as many times the subsequent week.

It comes with it's own issues as I have a friend who legitimately needed the Ravana tokens to even get the bird due to poor RNG luck but frankly anything is better than the free for all they're currently proposing.

[Kazgrel]

This proposed change is a solution in need of a problem. It’s always made sense to me to run these as the job I’d like to get gear for. I did Rabanastre during 4.1 almost exclusively as healer just to keep my healing skills clear of rust (and hooo boy did it do a good job of that) and to upgrade my gear for healers.

[Vstarstruck]

Actually, no. JP runs Alliance differently compared to us; prioritizing their mains to maximize contribution. Apparently, there were frequent complaints regarding loot hence the change. It had nothing whatsoever to do with people wanting Company Seals lest they make this change universal.

A simple solution is lifting the token system from EX Primals. You run x amount per week, and either purchase the item of your choosing or get lucky beforehand, thus not needing to run as many times the subsequent week.

still in shock they do a change for one user base.. isn't that racist?

Only problem i see token is , people shouldn't have to wait 4 weeks for a drop.

Run it once, get 2 tokens, one to upgrade the limited tomestone gear, and one for whatever gear is supposed to drop.

But Have a bigger issue, the older ones. I may run it for a glam specifically and people just bot the greed button or w/e so they can sell it for seals. This is an insanely selfish change.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Actually, no. JP runs Alliance differently compared to us; prioritizing their mains to maximize contribution. Apparently, there were frequent complaints regarding loot hence the change. It had nothing whatsoever to do with people wanting Company Seals lest they make this change universal.

A simple solution is lifting the token system from EX Primals. You run x amount per week, and either purchase the item of your choosing or get lucky beforehand, thus not needing to run as many times the subsequent week.

Well, to be fair, the reason people are using the class they want to gear up is to an extent caused by the loot system... But the all greed is very much not the solution to people wanting to maximize their chances of getting a certain piece when it does finally drop on the 20th run.

The best idea I've seen is still the idea that if you run the raid a few times during a week without getting anything from the bosses, it would give a token that counts as your weekly drop and could be turned into one piece of gear from the raid.
It would cap the amount of times people have to run it weekly to gear up.

[Alleo]

That's contradictory though. Because if they always play there main and thus best geared job to not drag groups down why bother gearing an alt you will never play because your main will always be better geared and thus always the one you play..

But to be honest I thought the reason 24mans had such low difficulty settingscwas because players typically used alt jobs in them

Exactly. If they dont want to let people down and even just play their main in 24 man raids..then wouldnt that mean that they only play them in savage and extreme content too? So why do they need the gear that much? They could still just level them up with older dungeons and older stone currency and be done with that..

With this system:
- Doing multiple runs in a day is now completly useless. Someone with a lot of time will not be able to obtain what they want by going in multiple time in the same day. This is aggravated if that player is also impacted by the next issue.
- It forces people to play one of the longest content in the game (especially during release time when wipes often happen) every single day. Someone who can only play on the weekends will fall behind by 4 or 5 tokens a week. For a "catch up" content, that's pretty bad.
- It's pretty much a progress bar, which is one of the things the most criticized in MMORPG for being completly bland and unfun. "Do task X times, go buy reward". I know some people don't see the "fun" aspect as important even though it is, so I won't get too much into it.

- People can still have their normal roll, the tokens would be on top of that. So if they can go into this a few times a day they could still get their gear by simply only rolling on it when it comes up (and since it would still have need, they would even get a big chance to own that) Also right now you still only get one loot per week thanks to the limit, so I dont really understand that argument. If you get one item on your first run you wont even run that raid again for the rest of the week because you wont get any gear loot till reset..tokens or not wont change that. Those that run it more than once per day either run it because they are unlucky and did not get what they want or because they do it for other reasons. Those other reasons would not be touched with tokens.

- First you said that running it more than once a day is now useless and now you are saying that this would force people to run it once a day? Again these tokens are on top of that. You dont need them. Its only there for those that may either have really bad luck or that want to gear up other jobs. Nearly a lot of stuff in this game will put people behind it if they dont do it daily/weekly. Be it beast tribes, tomestones (weekly), all the dungeon/instances where you get one loot per week (because you will not get that loot if you did not do it per week) And those that can only play at the weekend are always behind because they have less chances per week to get the loot they need. With tokens they raise their chance because they just get them when running the content anyway. So without tokens they might run it four weekends without the loot they want and have nothing to show at the end while with tokens they might still run that many times but they get a token each time and thus might be able to at least get one piece after those weekends. So winning for them too.

- And its completely more fun to run this content 40x without ever getting that drop that you need? There will be people who dont like the tokens and they simply can throw them away. But I believe that quite a bit of people love to have a way to battle bad RNG. I mean we have tokens for the primals and as far as I know this change was taken quite positive by the playerbase.

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This solution would be something on top of the normal weekly roll. It would help those unlucky people that would lose the roll against others (as DD) or that never see their gear when they play it. At least with tokens they know that they will get loot x after y runs. It also helps all those with more than one job because you can simply gear two of them. One with the roll that you normaly have and another with the tokens. (At the same time)

I am sorry but I cant see any of your arguments as good ones against these tokens. People that love to run it more than once daily can still do it because the normal rolls still exist, all those that cant play daily are already falling back because they have less chances to get the loot per week and with the greed only option they may get even less chances to get stuff. With tokens they might at least have something after a bit of time. (And honestly people with less time will always be behind, thats the way MMOs functions). And those that dislike such a progess can simply throw the tokens away and do it the normal way.

You might not like them but these could still be solutions. Nothing will ever be perfect.

[Nestama]

Well, to be fair, the reason people are using the class they want to gear up is to an extent caused by the loot system... But the all greed is very much not the solution to people wanting to maximize their chances of getting a certain piece when it does finally drop on the 20th run.

The best idea I've seen is still the idea that if you run the raid a few times during a week without getting anything from the bosses, it would give a token that counts as your weekly drop and could be turned into one piece of gear from the raid.
It would cap the amount of times people have to run it weekly to gear up.

So would it be something similar to the Challenge Log (after doing content X times you get token, but if you don't finish it by reset, then progress is lost), or the tome system (can only gather {amount} per week, but erase what has been acquired)? Also would getting a piece from the raid erase your token progress (since SE seem to really like their one item per week rule), or no?