All Greed on Alliance loot

[Vstarstruck]

does anyone know what the japanese actually think about this change? do they have a discussion about it on the JP board?

Yeah I asked for proof before and all I got was an off the wall reply that did not fit what I said.

I thought for sure that the JP servers go on their mains for the sake of efficiency in 24-man raids and they're just angry because they want to gear their alts that they're not playing and people who play those jobs, that may not even need the gear anymore, just need for 100% RNG sake, especially if they're the only type of job in the party.

For example, one JP player goes in on bard but they want to gear their summoner, they're better at playing bard than summoner. Another JP player goes in on their summoner, has better gear than the Mhach gear, and rolls Need on summoner gear anyways that has dropped simply to either troll or just turn into GC seals. Most of the time, most people in Japan won't speak up about being wronged unless it's called for simply because of the cultural tradition of "don't make trouble for others and become a burden to your team".

sounds like your assuming, also the game does not let you turn in gc seals in current 24 raid. (also be sure to note, weekly lockout when it is new)

For outdated raid you are only rolling need for gc seals/ glams so there should not be an issue going on the job for outdated content. When you are doing an old 24 raid in anything semi current gear, it is a complete pushover making the whole argument nonsense. It is a half bake idea that makes no sense, that really doesn't help anyone.

[Sigma-Astra]

That's why I was using Mhach as an example because I know that we can't turn anything in for Ivalice as of yet, it'll happen eventually though, no need to be so hostile and defensive over other people's opinion/idea. Like, geez, take a chill pill...

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't know, I'd like to believe that this is not really why. I really see no justifiable defense. All greed doesn't really help, then you just lose to someone else instead of the SMN in that example. Even going on the actual job it's not guaranteed, the gear could not drop at all or if you have another of the same/similar job to compete with on Need. Like, you're gonna get screwed either way eventually, or just get lucky af with a drop at the right time.

Right, I want to believe it too. It's just a strange thing for one part of the community to request upon when the other half never really experienced or voiced out concerns over need/greed in Alliance raids beforehand. It seemed completely out of left field. But, like I said beforehand, that was mostly based off of talking with someone who lived in Japan for a long time, of course, the culture and viewpoints may have changed as it is what usually happens over the course of time.

Honestly, we may never know the true reasoning as to why, especially if no one on the JP forums is talking about it and whatnot.

[hynaku]

They just need to get rid of gear drops and give each person a token that counts for that weeks gear piece at end of the raid. That solve the problem no more rolling and no more running same raid over and over to get piece you want. Also some roll need on items that may be worse than the gear they have now just for the glamour.

[whiskeybravo]

A quick glance with the terrible translator known as Google shows no obvious signs of discontent within the JP community. I only found one recent thread, though. Majority of comments seemed confused/against it.

[Alleo]

I misunderstood that you wanted to also keep the current system. My bad.

Well it would help the JP playerbase the most. They can go into this on their main character, roll need on anything that their main needs and greed on things that their other jobs need and maybe they get lucky. But thanks to the tokens they could get at least one loot (if RNG is really horrible and you dont get a drop per week) and if RNG is fine you can have one piece the normal way and one gear piece for a second job. This way they can gear up at least two jobs at the same time (which is more than they can do even with all greed). With all greed you might still not get anything at all.

It's not a question of me liking them or not, but here you're changing a lot of things that don't need to be changed. The goal of implementing a new loot system is to solve an issue without bringing new ones or drasically changing what's already working.

One token system that would do exactly that would be this one:
- Switch to all greed to solve the JP issue, the overflowing tanks in queues and people going in with some alt they don't know how to play (or simply don't want to play in 24-raids).
- To then fix the feeling of unfairness from players getting outrolled by others on something they want, add a special token awarded at the end of the run:
-- This token would share the weekly lockout of chests. So you cannot get both a token and a chest loot. Only one of the two.
-- 1 token to buy 1 piece of the player's choice.
-- This token wouldn't have a 100% chance of being awarded. We'd have to run some metrics to see roughly the current average chance of a player getting a specific loot, and adapt that token droprate to it. Overall, it'd probably be an increase in chances of getting something. The rate might be somewhere around 10% to 15%, I guess.
-- It would be given in the same way materials were given upon exiting a dungeon during the Zodiac Brave step of the relic (during the black screen, you'd have the "kathching!" prompt appearing... or not). So, you'd have to roll on the final chest, or not, depending on what you'd want to do: try to get something from the final chest, or try to get the token after leaving the instance.
-- A side effect of this token would be that people won't leave the instance if they didn't get what they wanted on a specific boss, because of the second chance they'd have by completing the instance.

The current system also worked just fine for a lot of people yet they still changed it to something that might only work out for some players.

Your token system would just put another RNG layer on top of everything. Players needs to be either lucky to get a gear set or they need to be lucky to get a token. This again makes it not fair to people since some could get their token on the first run, while another still runs it 20x a week with no drop at all. (RNG can be horrible) Its a really small safety net.

What does this do: For those that want something on their main they might still lose their once nearly certain roll to someone else. And they might not get the token at the end too. For those that gear up other jobs they will still have to roll against more people and since the token is not guaranteed people will still roll on more stuff to get at least something. Maybe with a small chance they might get a token at the end but thanks to bad luck they did not get any loot from the chests and no token. So imo that token barely changes anything. Some might have more luck thanks to that but most of us would probably still be out of luck.

At least with my token (or you could also give one 100% token per week) you will get at least something after running it 7 times. Unlike your system where you can run it daily and get nothing for the week. Since its seemingly just catch up gear for SE, I am also not sure why people should run this such a long time if they have bad luck. IMO it would be better if they have a safety net where you get at least one piece of gear for certain per week.

I thought for sure that the JP servers go on their mains for the sake of efficiency in 24-man raids and they're just angry because they want to gear their alts that they're not playing and people who play those jobs, that may not even need the gear anymore, just need for 100% RNG sake, especially if they're the only type of job in the party.

For example, one JP player goes in on bard but they want to gear their summoner, they're better at playing bard than summoner. Another JP player goes in on their summoner, has better gear than the Mhach gear, and rolls Need on summoner gear anyways that has dropped simply to either troll or just turn into GC seals. Most of the time, most people in Japan won't speak up about being wronged unless it's called for simply because of the cultural tradition of "don't make trouble for others and become a burden to your team".

But if they are truly all about playing a job great to not let the team down I am quite sure that they would at least be able to play each job decently. ALso if they are all about team play I am quite sure that most of them would not roll need on something just to troll. So if a JP summoner rolls on need they migh just need this for glamour and honestly seeing how big glamour is in the game, that would be a sensible reason. Especially since you can gear up your characters through other means. (And the all greed options makes older raids even worse because you can roll on anything without a lockout and cant even try to get the gear you need by going into it with the job you want. So All greed is worse if the lockout is gone)

Also lets look it at a different angle: Someone goes into this as a tank main, they need the gear because they did not play for a while and want to catch up. They have a longer queue time and a much harder job than at least most of the DDs. Finally the tank chest drops but thanks to the all greed option he now looses his gear piece to a DD that just need it for another job that they might not even play that much. Thats just completely bad too.

Before the change you had less people to roll against as a DD, no other person if you are tank and only one other as a healer. Now you might have 7 other people when the gear finally drops. You simply could increase the chance to own the gear by going into this with the job you need it for. If you want to gear up those jobs I would believe that you would want to play this in other content, so one should be at least comfortable with it.

Now everyone might lose it to the one DD that was death nearly the complete run and that truly just trolled or misclicked.

That's why I was using Mhach as an example because I know that we can't turn anything in for Ivalice as of yet, it'll happen eventually though, no need to be so hostile and defensive over other people's opinion/idea. Like, geez, take a chill pill...

I dont really see how Vstar was hostile in their post? They might not have seen the Mhach part (I overread that too since most of the discussion in this thread is about the current raid) but everything else was not that aggressive towards you. The argument which she called nonsense was about the one that SE made, the same with the idea of it. So not attack towards you either.

[Fyce]

The current system also worked just fine for a lot of people yet they still changed it to something that might only work out for some players.

For JP players, it didn't work so well apparently.

Your token system would just put another RNG layer on top of everything. Players needs to be either lucky to get a gear set or they need to be lucky to get a token. This again makes it not fair to people since some could get their token on the first run, while another still runs it 20x a week with no drop at all. (RNG can be horrible) Its a really small safety net.

It's not another "RNG layer". It's designed to increase the overall odds of getting something. That's not a layer you have to go through, it's a bonus chance. It's not dragging your chances down, it raises them up.
And yes, it's still RNG. But that's already what the current system is about. You can run dozens of 24-raids an never see what you want even be in a chest, or see your co-healer get it when it finally comes. Yet, there's no outcry about it. RNG is not something that need to change. RNG is fine.

What does this do: For those that want something on their main they might still lose their once nearly certain roll to someone else. And they might not get the token at the end too. For those that gear up other jobs they will still have to roll against more people and since the token is not guaranteed people will still roll on more stuff to get at least something. Maybe with a small chance they might get a token at the end but thanks to bad luck they did not get any loot from the chests and no token. So imo that token barely changes anything. Some might have more luck thanks to that but most of us would probably still be out of luck.

You can already lose what you want to someone else. The very exception being tanks. And yes, my suggestion doesn't change the overall odds that we currently have. You have a global reduction of your chances due to the number of player being able to roll increasing, but you then have a bonus chance which balance everything to roughly the current chances of you getting something (tanks excluded, obviously). "Bad luck" happens, that's true. But good luck does happen too. You cannot use one extreme part of the normal distribution while putting the other end aside.

At least with my token (or you could also give one 100% token per week) you will get at least something after running it 7 times. Unlike your system where you can run it daily and get nothing for the week. Since its seemingly just catch up gear for SE, I am also not sure why people should run this such a long time if they have bad luck. IMO it would be better if they have a safety net where you get at least one piece of gear for certain per week.

Again, RNG is fine. Especially in games of that genre.
Your system changes a lot of things that don't need to be changed. We don't need twice as much pieces of gear per week. We don't need the 24-raid to become a daily content that some players won't be able to do. Besides, it doesn't even solve the issue about chest loot in JP. They'll just have a pity system, but still have trouble getting gear from chests. Which is the very reason why SE wants to change the current system!
Mine keep the weekly limit of 1 piece per week, solves the JP issue, keep the overall odds that we currently have, let people play whatever they want to play, flatten the queue times, doesn't give an advantage to some jobs for no reason, and doesn't ask people to run this content on a daily basis.

We don't need a 100% reliable way of getting loot.
RNG is fine.

[Alleo]

For JP players, it didn't work so well apparently.

Yet someone posted a bit over our posts that they used google translate on one JP thread and there people seems to be confused about the change too. SE might have used reason x for that change but if its really good or even wanted is something we dont know 100%. I mean they went ahead and wrote why Diadem 1 failed and that they listened to player feedback and ideas and created....Diadem 2.0. Which was probably death even faster. (Which a lot of RNG on top of RNG which was surrounded by RNG)

In the end this thread shows that at least a big amount of people on the NA forums dislike such a chance. Heck even some of the more famous streamers are not understanding that change at all. Should they really "help" their JP playerbase, which is the minority and maybe anger a lot more subcribers on the NA and EU side? Why not let it be that way and just add something good for all on top of that? (And I still cant understand how they dont just level up all their secondary jobs with dungeons drops, older tome stones and stuff like that..if they are only comfortable playing 24 man raids with their mains they will probably use those with savage too..so why need to be up to date with every job?)

[Sigma-Astra]

snip

Honestly, I don't really agree with the All Greed nonsense either, so my post was mostly just speculation on the JP end based on feedback from someone that's live in Japan for a while. I realize that times will and have probably changed over the course of several years. I don't know about them being all to perform at every single job to it's perfection level though. I think that might be leaning towards too much of a generalized assumption since there are people that may only like to specialize in one or a select few of jobs, but not everything unless you're a perfectionist, I guess. And that's not entirely exclusive towards the JP side, there's plenty of NA/EU players that tend to only dip their feet in a few trades at best.

And thanks for the clarification, it's the just the way she/he worded it that came off that way towards the end.

[Vstarstruck]

Honestly, I don't really agree with the All Greed nonsense either, so my post was mostly just speculation on the JP end based on feedback from someone that's live in Japan for a while. I realize that times will and have probably changed over the course of several years. I don't know about them being all to perform at every single job to it's perfection level though. I think that might be leaning towards too much of a generalized assumption since there are people that may only like to specialize in one or a select few of jobs, but not everything unless you're a perfectionist, I guess. And that's not entirely exclusive towards the JP side, there's plenty of NA/EU players that tend to only dip their feet in a few trades at best.

And thanks for the clarification, it's the just the way she/he worded it that came off that way towards the end.

I feel that might be from a bias you have of me, but alleo is right. I was referring to SE's logic. Different argument, different tones etc, I do not hold grudges. I really do not make reference to other bias or threads unless someone is really pushing me to do so.

It should be this simple, for outdated raids just go the job you need the gear for (i/e glam) No one cares about being perfect there and current gear in outdated raids make them a pushover. No one cares about seal drama or whatever else, just hit greed like second nature. For current, you have a few things to be restrictive. 1. weekly lockout, so people are not going to be hitting that need unless it is really important to them glam or upgrade, same for greed. Seals can't be claimed when it is current. So ... i really do not get why SE is doing this.

A few better solutions would be making a currency that GOES IN CURRENCY TAB (so sick of currency inventory bloat) or make a 3rd button, need, need for off spec (only lights up if you meet level requirement) then greed. This greed wide... really does not help anyone.