Next expansion, please make PLD optimal MT and WAR optimal OT

[Reynhart]

FF3: Knight job again returns as the best "tank."

No, in FFIII, the best tank is Viking, because it comes with the Provoke ability. And, in that game, Cover only activates when a party member is in critical, so it's not a tool used to manually direct hits at the Knight.

The problem with using offline FF is that you don't have the same split between taking hits and dealing damage. Knight always was a powerhouse in every game it appeared too, and any job who can wear heavy armor was also capable of taking lots of damage. In the end, Provoke, the only ability whose sole purpose is to be targeted was never a Knight ability except in ARR.

[lulunami]

WAR has always been the optimal Main Tank since the rework in 2.0. Full-time Defiance WAR had more mitigation and dps than full-time Shield Oath PLD back then. The player base just refused to accept that WAR was the best tank at everything back then.

[Reynhart]

WAR has always been the optimal Main Tank since the rework in 2.0. Full-time Defiance WAR had more mitigation and dps than full-time Shield Oath PLD back then. The player base just refused to accept that WAR was the best tank at everything back then.

To build on that, if a slashing debuff was applied, SwO PLD did slightly more damage than Defiance-less WAR.

[RLofOBFL]

Defiance WAR most certainly did not do more damage. Idk about now but in HW it was Drk > Pld > War and that was on a dummy, excluding slashing debuff for Drk/Pld. Idk about mitigation either...esp now. I guess IR IB is pretty broken.

But all of that is irrelevant since tanking is something done in dps stance so meh.

[Reynhart]

Defiance WAR most certainly did not do more damage.

We're talking during 2.x

[Derio]

Next expansion please make all tank combinations for MT and OT viable per balance.

[Izsha]

OP, yours is just 1 persons fantasy though. Why is your world in which Pld is taking all the hits somehow more important than my fantasy of the berzerked out warrior beast charging the front line AND breaking it to clear a path for his party not as 'good'? It's very restrictive to subdivide tanks into this MT/OT thing when the current situation (all tanks can MT and OT) allows each player to live whatever fantasy they want. If you want to be a PLD MT, then every duty you enter, put on shield oath and go pull. If I want to charge into the front lines on my war, then I can put on defiance and charge in my own duties. If I instead want to show how strong I can be at supporting the party with my damage and snap agro for adds, then I can do that.

I don't see why we cant just enjoy the flexible system that we already have that lets people play how they want instead of some absurdly small niche. Sure, 1 setup will always be optimal because complete and utter balance with asymmetry is impossible. But they can all functionally do it which is good enough to live out the fantasy of your choice.

[Luin]

This has always bothered me on a deeply fundamental level. PLDs should be MT'ng, even more so in proper difficult content. Using a shield to protect your allies, being the epitome of MT. I think most people start this game who want to main PLD have this kind of fantasy in mind. Same with WAR: big berserkers who throw caution to the wind and focus more on damage than tanking. They should be the best designated off tank.

Please, make sure this happens in the next expansion. Make sure PLD is always the optimal MT and WAR is the optimal OT. DRK will fit perfectly inbetween both, and be MT with a WAR OT or OT with a PLD MT.

There is no such thing as "main tank" and "off tank".

Proper tanking is tankswapping to maintain high cooldown uptime. Done optimally, neither tank should hold the boss for a long time (generally). Clown good example, where swapping lets you have invulns for the first 3 Hyper Drives (done right you can also invuln the upsurge before 2nd HD), where without swapping, you'd only have it for 1st and 3rd, and your PLD would have fewer CD for last phase.

People say "main tank" and "off tank" and use these terms incorrectly. They generally only mean who is pulling the boss, and in that case, PLD is the worst. Drk generates far more enmity with DAPS, has no dot to apply early, isnt losing any burst during raid buffs, and dropping Grit doesn't require a GCD. WAR is best at pulling, as you (unchained)>tomahawk>equilibrium for a huge enmity lead. PLD is the worst because SwO requires a GCD, need to apply Goring Blade, and want to put Req/FoF on cd immediately. You're going to lose hundreds of dps, minimum. It's not just your first 5 gcds being lost, you're completely unsynced from raid buffs.

As long WAR is the only tank with free stance swap, this ain't happening.

Oh wait, they're also better on full Defiance vs full Shield Oath. Totally not a broken job at all guys.

Nobody ever said WAR was balanced. The closest they ever were to being balanced was 4.0 and that was awful to play. I'd rather have an op job than an unfun job. If WAR gets nerfs it'd have to be to its mitigation. Its damage isn't leagues beyond PLD/DRK, even w/ raidbuffs, and can drop severely if you mistime Upheaval/IR or capout/lose infuriate uses. IMO a lot of war's strength comes from holmgang being 3m cd, shake, and thrill. They can definitely do with single-target enmity generation being reduced across the board, too.

[Thela]

IMO they should try and do a better job at encounters so that both tanks have something to do. This whole once you're not tanking you're just a weaker version of a DPS is not really cutting it.

God Kefka is a good example of an encounter done right where you have responsibilities for both tanks throughout the fight whatever you're tanking the boss or not.

[Dio_Tiferet]

So basically OP is saying nerf PLD because you guys made PLD so good that it can not only MT but is also the best support tank.