Next expansion, please make PLD optimal MT and WAR optimal OT

[AppleJinx]

Why are you talking about optimal tanking when the concept of tank swapping seems foreign to you.

[Silverneck]

Think OP fails to realize that you cant not have warrior as king of tanks. SE logics = if WAR isnt god, something is wrong.

[SiriusSaltstice]

Thing is, PLD is a great MT. It just cant pull for shit. All of the tanks can tank the boss just fine.

The big thing is snap aggro. WAR generates aggro like it's nothing. It's why they always pull, and this gets misconstrued into "them holding the boss". If pld didn't lose a lot by pulling, no one would care.

And a MT/OT role really removes flexibility in tanking. Having one person hold the boss pretty much deletes the other tank's kit and the tank holding hate will run into issues of CD for tsnkbusters.

[Mithron]

V5s: WAR MT, PLD OT. This is the norm, pug convention. No tank swaps.
V6s: Same, no tank swaps.
V7s: Same, no tank swaps, except if OT gets virus. Then OT tanks for a minimal amount of time before swapping back.

Susano ex: PLD actually makes a good MT here for Hallowed Ground on first Stormsplitter, but WAR obviously pulls first for optimal DPS and aggro gain (even if it's not needed at all). Has good tank swaps.
Lakshmi ex: PLD best OT, no tank swaps needed.
Shinryu ex: PLD best OT, only tanks for a minimal amount of time between invuln Ahk Mourns and Terra Slashes.
Byakko ex: PLD best OT, tank swaps minimal amount of time.

This is the problem. I shouldn't have to build a static to go out of the way to play sub optimally with PLD MT'ng.

[Shurrikhan]

Why would you purposely waste defensive CDs over time on an OT just so the MT can stay MT continuously?...

There are mitigating factors via SiO and InVn/Cover now, but it's still wasteful by comparison.

This is the problem. I shouldn't have to build a static to go out of the way to play sub optimally with PLD MT'ng.

So why should anyone and everyone "have to build a static to go out of the way to play sub optimally with" a Dark Knight or Warrior MTing for any significant part of the fight?

Why would either of those be any less aesthetically fit for the MT role? There's nothing that's ever said that PLD is the quintessential MT. Cover begs to differ, as does over half its kit added since ARR, where Warrior was already an aesthetically and functionally even (and, in practice, better) choice for MT.

[SiriusSaltstice]

snip

In O8S both tanks swap regularly.

In 5S, I've seen pld pugs grab the boss they can invuln the TB during prey aoes.

In 6S, the goddess is more scary than Chadarnook. Her autos and the last kiss TB hurts more than Demonic Shear.

Also in 7S, the adds are more of a threat than guardian.

Again, PLD not pulling isn't some complex optimization;its easy. WAR pulls because their kit helps them not delay IR/Eye or use BB. Meanwhile, pld delays 3 things to establish hate(goring, req, FoF).

If you want to tank the boss, just ask your cotank to pull, you voke. I've done it for O7S with a pug tank.

I get that WAR always pulling/PLD not pulling is tiring. But a lot of fights in this expansion make both tanks involved so its not a big issue. And to repeat the others, having one tank hold hate onto the boss is inefficient. Even most pugs know this. And some sensible pugs will cooperate with you if you communicate.

[Saeno]

V5s: WAR MT, PLD OT. This is the norm, pug convention. No tank swaps.
V7s: Same, no tank swaps, except if OT gets virus. Then OT tanks for a minimal amount of time before swapping back.
This is the problem. I shouldn't have to build a static to go out of the way to play sub optimally with PLD MT'ng.

None of that is optimal though. A PLD not using their CD's and also not getting any shield swipe procs is very bad for healer DPS and the PLD's DPS. I get that these are pug strats but I seriously fail to see how provoking and shirking is complicated for a level 70 tank.


Missing hallowed ground/Sentinel on o5s is bad, no way around it. Vengeance reflects also doesn't work on Phantom Train since everything it does is magic except Head on, meaning the priority for a WAR to hold the boss over a PLD post-pull is non-existant.
PLD picking up adds instead of the WAR in o7s is also absolutely awful. I've seen some groups have the WAR pick up adds and the boss, but why not just leave the boss on the PLD so they can make use of their CD's and shield swipe?

[Booden]

snip

Besides Lakshmi (solo tankable) and O6S (both tanks are tanking something, chad and the lady ghost hurt both).

Shinryu EX has tank swaps in the first and final phases, and in the first phase both tanks are getting hit by auto attacks.

Byakko and O7S both have adds. And if you honestly make the non war tank pick up adds in a party where you have a war, you're legit evil lol. You can tank switch right before adds spawn and then just circle shirk, having the pld mt and the war ot the rest of the fight(outside virus). Picking up adds as a PLD / DRK is such a bloody chore compared to WAR's ezpz stance dance+monster snap aggro (unchained, equilibrium) and his ridiculous burst (IR fell cleaves) which lets him keep aggro in deliverance even against great dps players.

A bonus is that the WAR can onslaught back to the boss in Byakko EX, barely losing any uptime. In fact since you can ignore second add due to tank lb3, you can onslaught after dropping the tiger meteor far from the party, and get a full IR rotation on the boss, before turning the add when it finally comes after shooting two beams to avoid cleaving your party.

O5S, it doesn't really matter now, but before when gear was tight you'd rather have the war pull but tank switch asap to have the drk/pld mitigate magic damage better.

[Velthice]

If you can't bear the thought of someone else "MTing" as outdated a concept as that is, maybe you should take a minute and check your ego. I don't understand why it's so important to you. Tanking a team effort, shared responsibility. It's not about personal glory of being "the main tank" That's just silly.

[OcieKo]

And here I was always on the side of just remove shirk and lower enmity modifiers across the board to get tanks into a better spot