Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Vstarstruck]

Sorry, didn't know I had to reply to every post of yours.

Esp when no comment to this because you keep repeating how it is "speculation?"

Yes Ill state again, you are being blind by optimism, the way that is worded means it is only by IRL money, if it was anything different, it is SE failing to communicate. So hope that is the case I guess.

For the other, fine you are closed minded to different tastes, but ignoring the fact you can't see paying RL money for an advantage is troubling. You can be easily manipulated if you make no effort to aanalyze what something is or the reason behind that caused.. whatever it may be.

btw "Never said it doesn't matter, thank you" does not matter, I stand by my saying you are acting like it doesn't matter since you will not admit it is P2W, you want to harm those that it does matter, just because you think it is worthless or something, no idea.. Oh you do not want to push SE to make things fair just because you do not see MB issues as winning, that is pretty shallow, don't you think?

You are winning more gil, you are winning more power to control things, if someone wants to and goes full out they can completely control the MB, the only thing stopping them after this app is simply choosing if they care to or not. I will be shocked if no one tries it esp when there is duel account crafters out there that do nothing but craft. You pay for an advantage a base sub does not have, this does fit the meaning PTW.

(don't forget the extra shady move paying for a basic UI element of moving items retainer to retainer, not pay to win but... idk it goes with the same with konami 10 dollar save slot. in FFXI you pay for token for extra mog bag, 80 slots, for this game it would be like buying an extra 140 slots, a 3rd UI like the chobobo bag for one time fee.)

I stand here to basically say SE you are charging players too much money for a month in relation what you are giving. If you gave us a real glam log, more inventory solvers and other things like not releasing content in beta, then sure, if it REALLY shows you are going above and beyond to give extra services, sure ill pay more but for now it is sub cancel till you stop ripping people off. Right now though, we do not see results where it is valid to attempt charging 36 dollars a month, while 21 of that is PtW "extra" services.

36 dollars a month is a lot to be asking for, extra or not, I better be seeing something really stellar for that kind of price tag.

[Alleo]

You're right, I don't see that as winning because I don't see what the "winning" or "losing" condition are, who are your opponents and how you face them, and how you build that as a competition.
Can you explain how you decide who "wins" ?

You'd still spend money with the purpose of winning something.

See it as PVP for crafters. Maybe someone is working hard to be the one that first gets the whole crafted set on the server. Maybe someone wants that Gillionaire title or for the MB you can have someone that wants to be the main seller for an item. There are sadly some people that use gathering bots to get all the items and that sells thousands of them and barely anyone has a chance in that market section. I am quite sure that the 8 character per server but especially the retainers are given that person the huge advantage.

You can reach all of that without the retainers, but the thing is that retainer saves you time. Which is one of the biggest points in definitions of P2W, next to power or simply something a better gear. And having reduced the time it takes is an advantage that you got by paying. I mean P2W is never instant win. Its always just a help to reach that goal.

[Vstarstruck]

See it as PVP for crafters. Maybe someone is working hard to be the one that first gets the whole crafted set on the server. Maybe someone wants that Gillionaire title or for the MB you can have someone that wants to be the main seller for an item. There are sadly some people that use gathering bots to get all the items and that sells thousands of them and barely anyone has a chance in that market section. I am quite sure that the 8 character per server but especially the retainers are given that person the huge advantage.

You can reach all of that without the retainers, but the thing is that retainer saves you time. Which is one of the biggest points in definitions of P2W, next to power or simply something a better gear. And having reduced the time it takes is an advantage that you got by paying. I mean P2W is never instant win. Its always just a help to reach that goal.

exactly, like with this:

same thing as above, if no one cared for this kind of competition, 2 people wouldn't of been spam price changing (you see why I said price changing and not undercut in a bit) for 1 hour straight. On this one set of walls, 2 people spammed price changes every 15 sec to 30 sec for 1 hour straight. Once one felt it was too low, would hike it back up, and the other would undercut the new hike price and start all over.

Do you really think those 2 went at it purely for gil? no there is that competition, you want to sell yours, you want more people to have gear with your name on it, etc. I mean dedicated crafter can spot other dedicated crafters and if you see their name on gear someone is using its like UGH!

it isn't just time though, the MB moves slow, so having 200 different things makes more gil then listing 40, then if you go extreme, 3200 slots = owning the MB completely to monopolize on. You simply "buy out" the competition by undercut spam then buying them out then hiking price again, people not big in crafting will not keep up with it and give up at some point.

the app though being undercut off that as you craft and doing other things? a full time crafter will have huge advantages off it, that is something you can't extra fee, either make it free or don't have it at all.

[Reynhart]

See it as PVP for crafters.

If there was some kind of rank for crafters or "gillionaires", I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. Because, at that point, everyone would actually participate in a shared "race".

Right now, you probably have people who create their full roster of characters to have the most free (or paid) retainers available (with a personal FC for sharing items), or even some people with multiple accounts (A friend of mine probably has three, judging by the number of alts he connects at the same time), the latter you can not prevent, and some with only Entry accounts...how is the MB "competition" still balanced that a single retainer will break it ? Or is it already so imbalanced that doing a race with others is rigged anyway ?

[Remedi]

Ye there are too many imbalances in the market, there also lack of players interactions by now not only an ease all around with crafted items which leads to craft beign bottable by macros and such.
Also there's not gil dump, once you have your mansion you pretty much got all that there is to buy with gils, there's no incentive to hoard more of them if only for personal vanity.
Frankly If I have to be honest I think SE hates the MB and is trying to kill commerce in every way possible since no more carbonized dark matter market, goodbye glamour market, Materias market what's that?

[Vstarstruck]

If there was some kind of rank for crafters or "gillionaires", I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. Because, at that point, everyone would actually participate in a shared "race".

Right now, you probably have people who create their full roster of characters to have the most free (or paid) retainers available (with a personal FC for sharing items), or even some people with multiple accounts (A friend of mine probably has three, judging by the number of alts he connects at the same time), the latter you can not prevent, and some with only Entry accounts...how is the MB "competition" still balanced that a single retainer will break it ? Or is it already so imbalanced that doing a race with others is rigged anyway ?

Has nothing to do with adding another retainer itself, its more so that last retainer costs 7 dollars a month, while 7 others are 14 dollars a month, totaling 21 dollars a month. Anyways you are missing our point, the fact you need some kind of ranking board to show a "win" again this is only showing how narrow minded your view point is. Pay to win means getting any kind of advantage with real money that someone else can't get unless they pay real money. You do not need a ranking board to prove a "win" stop taking it so literally that is not what pay to win means, Alleo keeps repeating this, I keep repeating this, MomomiMomi keeps repeating this. Ever think the issue here is your narrow scope how to define pay to win, if you are unwilling to try to see a different point of view outside your own narrow scope, this argument will never end, just be people repeating the same thing over and over again.

The problem here is SE is making an issue by giving people an advantage by paying real money, if people do not make a stand and say no, they will keep pushing and pushing. Basically your narrow scope how to define pay to win is bringing future harm to the game.

We also need to stand up and say no extra fees for basic UI functions, stop trying to copy EA/konami

[Remedi]

They have to fagocitate smaller companies or becoming invested in spa pachinkos to do that before and as for now they are kinda away from that.
Lootboxes are honestly the least problem with EA

[Xlantaa]

Having more inventory is not pay to win. Or having 8 retainer you will get a insta Kefka down? or you will have advantage in PVP? You're making a fucking mountain of this, when it means nothing.

[Istaru]

you want more people to have gear with your name on it

I love this! It makes me so happy to see that someone is enjoying an item I made!! That is my goal when playing this game, to make stuff that other people will buy and use. It is hard enough to do that now, the app has the potential to make it harder.

I mean dedicated crafter can spot other dedicated crafters and if you see their name on gear someone is using its like UGH!

This is also true. One of them lives in the same ward as me too!!

[Vstarstruck]

Having more inventory is not pay to win. Or having 8 retainer you will get a insta Kefka down? or you will have advantage in PVP? You're making a ----- mountain of this,when it means nothing.

can you read the thread before acting condescending? it would be most helpful. I will give you a hint though, it has nothing to do with inventory space (how much inventory space that should come with base sub is a different debate) It is about sale slots and how to manage them. 10 retainers vs 2? 200 slots per chr vs 40? 1600 vs 320? these are pay to win advantages. It gets even worse when you pay real money to each time you change something to the mb, like undercut control. This means there will be that one person that takes full control of the mb due to how far P2W the MB is now. Maybe open your mind up a bit as you read some replies to prevent making foolish posts such as this.

Or are you one of those that wants to make sure this app happens so you do have full control of the MB? always wondered if there is a poster here with such motivation.

I love this! It makes me so happy to see that someone is enjoying an item I made!! That is my goal when playing this game, to make stuff that other people will buy and use. It is hard enough to do that now, the app has the potential to make it hazarded.



This is also true. One of them lives in the same ward as me too!!

Least there is a few that understands, not just me vs everyone else. That is a refreshing change. (Like look at the thread I made talking about how I was helping my SO with inventory space) taking 2 hrs from lacking a feature that would take a few mins that is locked behind a 5 dollar a month paywall on a second sub is ridiculous.