Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Reynhart]

I'm pretty sure a little research on your part and you would figure out that I have plenty of evidence.

I'll definitely use that sentence if I ever need to build a case in trial.

[Alleo]

How is that a competitive goal ?

Since when does P2W strictly have to do with competition? As far as I know it has do do with giving an advantage by being paid real money. And there is clearly an advantage. Exactly how a fishing suit in BDO does not give a competitive advantage or a leveling booster gives none and yet those are seen as P2W by a lot of those people there.

In the end when you read articles on the internet you can ask 10 people about P2W and you get 11 answers. There is not a single universal rule of what P2W is. But at least most of them tell about an advantage over those that dont pay. Some say that it will help to reach a goal faster or to get more power.

You might not seen retainers as P2W but you can also take those points and apply them to it. People already told you about advantages (more items to sell, more storage, more ventures to sent out). If you want to be a Gillionaire you will reach that goal faster if you have more retainers simply by having more slots to sell at the same time and more chances to get great loot per retainer. If your goal is to craft certain high end stuff as a crafter, the retainers will help you gather certain items faster. The more retainers you have, the more items you will get per venture. Thus you will be able to craft the item faster. You could even use power as a reasons because having more retainers means more slots to sell thus more ways to own a market and thus to push people out of it.

So it might not be a P2W item for fighting but fighting is not the only part of this game.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

Following on from this, I'd like to add that I've seen a gap on a certain site I'm part of, and I have peripherals from a manufacturer that can be programmed. I'm going to be building a solution on that. Think up of small projects (like the one I have, which is Chroma notifications for a site), and build up from there. Another pair of resources I would recommend if you're interested in C# are Microsoft Virtual Academy and Channel9. I have used both resources and they are great.

[Reynhart]

Since when does P2W strictly have to do with competition?

Since there's win in it...

[MomomiMomi]

Since there's win in it...

But it isn't a literal term. Even in a competitive game, someone with greater skill can still defeat someone who has paid for an advantage. It's still P2W even though the person didn't win.

[Alleo]

Since there's win in it...

Again..you can have win between crafters too. You can have win between those that are fighting on the MB. Just because you dont see that as a win does not make it that way for others.

In the end it seems that more people see retainers as P2W or as a way to it. And that is already bad enough.

[Reynhart]

Just because you dont see that as a win does not make it that way for others.

You're right, I don't see that as winning because I don't see what the "winning" or "losing" condition are, who are your opponents and how you face them, and how you build that as a competition.
Can you explain how you decide who "wins" ?

Even in a competitive game, someone with greater skill can still defeat someone who has paid for an advantage. It's still P2W even though the person didn't win.

You'd still spend money with the purpose of winning something.

[Vstarstruck]

But it isn't a literal term. Even in a competitive game, someone with greater skill can still defeat someone who has paid for an advantage. It's still P2W even though the person didn't win.

This

Since there's win in it...

whats wrong, can't reply to a post because it is the last post on a page?

OMFG! -.- you insult me and ask this?
How is savage is competitive goal?
how is world first a competitive goal?
How is PvP being number 1 competitive goal?
I explained this over and over again and you wonder why I gave "smug" tone? because you keep ignoring what I have to say. You can't brush off a different play style just because it is different then your own. Some people JUST WANT TO SEE how much gil they can mass and simply like crafting. For people like that, this app is VERY HARMFUL while people P2W in that area is going to give them a huge advantage, so much so one person can completely control the market. I am worried about that one person per server that duo box crafting and only crafts everyday what they will do with this. that is 3200 sale slots for them, insane. 72 dollar monthly cost + micotransaction fees. So for someone like that, it is a HUGE unfair P2W advantage over base sub.

@Tridus, ah okay, I just did not want you feel excluded, I said maybe because I couldn't tell if you had some kind of focus in gaining gil in FFXIV, or just being open minded and simply calling it for what it is, hence why I said maybe.

Yes Ill state again, you are being blind by optimism, the way that is worded means it is only by IRL money, if it was anything different, it is SE failing to communicate. So hope that is the case I guess.

5 dollars a month is well worth the price only for a more streamlined UI where you can accept ventures and send off retainers with one click.

No it is not, our base sub should be covering that, it is a rip off
This is what companies do to get people to accept it, this line of thinking exactly.

What alleo said. Do you know how heated some people can get with it? First off I I know some things from simply talking to people on discord. This one finds "winning" by getting a large house for solo FC, then taking that FC and solo build (well most part, this person's ingame SO helps a bit with it, but lets say 80% of the work?)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4632311
Just by the return time, my discord friend knew what kind of setups they where attempting and knew it was "wrong" don't you find that impressive at all? that is how well they knew the system, and it only took them 8 tries for node 24, and yet 2 weeks + and no result for that poster? there are ways to steer rng in your favor and this person was able recognize it

4 different max part setups with parts on standby to switch and mix for others, the reason why I was able to explain to someone in the distant past about how to get node 24 was because of this person, and 2 max subs. Considering full FCs have trouble with these sort of things, don't you think that it is impressive one person achieved all that? To top things off, they gathered most of the materials themselves, keeping 8 retainers full of different things to sell, selling a few workshop parts like walls WHILE building for the fc itself 80% solo? that is not a win to you? I doono about you, but I consider that an achievement. Just because you can't show it off like being number 1 on the pvp rankings does not change the value of achievements like that.

(btw this person is very able to just buy everything on the mb, but the thing is "need something to do while I wait for things to sell")

People with this much dedication to the mb and money making goals in general, and you want to toss them aside like they do not matter just because you have different tastes?

You're right, I don't see that as winning because I don't see what the "winning" or "losing" condition are, who are your opponents and how you face them, and how you build that as a competition.
Can you explain how you decide who "wins" ?

because you are closed minded to tastes that differ from your own, I hoped you understand better now after what I just said.
same thing as above, if no one cared for this kind of competition, 2 people wouldn't of been spam price changing (you see why I said price changing and not undercut in a bit) for 1 hour straight. On this one set of walls, 2 people spammed price changes every 15 sec to 30 sec for 1 hour straight. Once one felt it was too low, would hike it back up, and the other would undercut the new hike price and start all over.

It is called self pride as a crafter, saying that kind of player does not matter is kind of .. insulting don't you think? in the end it doesn't change you have access to pay real money for an advantage, that is what P2W stands for, not literally winning, as others explained, you can buy IRL money advantage and still lose (like buying stat potion up for pvp), does not change the fact p2w element is there.

[MomomiMomi]

You'd still spend money with the purpose of winning something.

Perhaps. But you weren't sold a win. You were sold an advantage. What the person was hoping to buy has no relevance on what was actually being sold.

Therefore, P2W doesn't mean pay to win. It means pay for an advantage.

[Reynhart]

whats wrong, can't reply to a post because it is the last post on a page?

Sorry, didn't know I had to reply to every post of yours.

Considering full FCs have trouble with these sort of things, don't you think that it is impressive one person achieved all that?

It sure his, but it has nothing to do with what others do.

It is called self pride as a crafter, saying that kind of player does not matter is kind of .. insulting don't you think?

Never said it doesn't matter, thank you. But it's a self imposed goal and nothing others make will have any impact on that. Your neighbor could build a larger house faster than you, it won't change your achievement of doing it by yourself. Unless you talked to him and decided to do a proper race, and in that case, you should have set rules to make sure no one has an unfair advantage.

If my pride is leveling every job of the game to 70, I don't care if others buy Jump potions, it won't negate my satisfaction of achieving a goal I made for myself.