Just say no

[Derio]

The best way for the West to react is to simply use the app but not the premium service. Speak with your wallets.

Because the forum can say one thing. But the $$$$ from people buying premium can make the forum argument null and void if enough people buy

[Gurpsmeister]

If people pay because they feel they have to then in my opinion they are foolish. If they are so against it that they quit then that's their choice to make. I don't believe the losses are going to outweigh the gains on a thing like this.
Should you have to pay 5 bucks? Yes, because the company that made it decided it was so. Do you HAVE to pay 5 bucks? Definitely not. What you consider a right they've decided is a paid priviledge. That's their decision to make, how you respond is yours.
If you think EA for an instant learned some moral lesson about lockboxes because of an uproar you're silly in the head. They're still present, they just hid them better.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying I'm right. I am saying you can tantrum and scream or high ground it until you're blue in the face. I wager it changes nothing and more than enough people are going to buy what's offered and keep doing so in the future.

[Vhailor]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying I'm right. I am saying you can tantrum and scream or high ground it until you're blue in the face. I wager it changes nothing and more than enough people are going to buy what's offered and keep doing so in the future.

Quite possible. This is why the peer pressure component is so essential. Don't let people feel comfortable making decisions that wrongly incentivize SE. Don't stay silent in your Linkshells, in your FC. When people speak about having a bunch of optional Retainers, or a new item from the Mog Station, or about some feature of the paid phone service, speak up. Point out how harmful their spending habits are to the long-term health of FFXIV (and, indeed, most games everywhere). This type of shit is ruining a large swath of gaming. Make sure people realize it.

[Gurpsmeister]

Quite possible. This is why the peer pressure component is so essential. Don't let people feel comfortable making decisions that wrongly incentivize SE. Don't stay silent in your Linkshells, in your FC. When people speak about having a bunch of optional Retainers, or a new item from the Mog Station, or about some feature of the paid phone service, speak up. Point out how harmful their spending habits are to the long-term health of FFXIV (and, indeed, most games everywhere). This type of shit is ruining a large swath of gaming. Make sure people realize it.

You say ruin.
I say adds choice.
Market trends speak louder than forum complaints. On this you are correct, i just feel that far more people are going to spend than complain. Like you said, most gaming is doing this. I'm okay with it, so are most gamers speaking strictly from a spending pattern perspective.
The voices on this forum are but a whisper compared to the roar of the dollar.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

So let's say Square Enix charged £10m per hour to access the game. Each retainer cost £5m per hour to have (no free ones). Duties are locked at a cost of £1m per duty attempt. Savage Raids/Extreme primals cost £500m per attempt (a wipe counts as an attempt). Expansions cost £1b per expansion. For every item you gather or craft, or obtain in any way, you pay a fee of £5m per item (this includes shards/crystals/clusters too. For example receiving 20 fire shards would cost you £100m). Housing you had to pay an upkeep fee of £20b a day. Each glamour plate cost £1m. Each slot in the armoire/glamour dressers cost £2.5k. (btw, this is all real money I'm talking here, not in-game currency). Would that still be fun to you? Where do you draw the line?

And yes, this is deliberately exaggerated to try and drill the point home. If you think Square Enix are gonna stop at what they've done so far, they won't. They're gonna keep pushing further and further until enough of a stink is created and they figure out where they draw the line. Notice how they do it all bit by bit too? This is intentional so as to kick up less of a stink so they can get away with more. Because most people don't notice the small changes, but they add up.

[Gurpsmeister]

And yes, this is deliberately exaggerated to try and drill the point home. If you think Square Enix are gonna stop at what they've done so far, they won't. They're gonna keep pushing further and further until enough of a stink is created and they figure out where they draw the line. Notice how they do it all bit by bit too? This is intentional so as to kick up less of a stink so they can get away with more. Because most people don't notice the small changes, but they add up.

As you said your examples are ridiculous in an attempt to weigh the argument in your favor. Are there lines, clearly. They are determined by what will and will not sell. Righteous indignation isn't likely to play into it much.

[Tint]

hm, i don't even own a phone... o.ô

[worldofneil]

It seems the rest don't care or support the idea.

Or they just simply don't know about it.

There's no official translation yet and by the time we finally get one and SE actually add it to the Lodestone/launcher so people see it they'll probably just be like: "Oh well it's too close to release now so we're going to go ahead anyway".

[Gurpsmeister]

Or they just simply don't know about it.

There's no official translation yet and by the time we finally get one, even if more people kick up a fuss then SE will be like "Oh well it's too close to release now so we're going to go ahead anyway".

I'd bundle them in with the don't care lot. Also i highly doubt that's how SE or any major business at all thinks. Ever.

[Vhailor]

You say ruin.
I say adds choice.

It's hard to say anything is 'added' by this when the functionality present in modern monetization schemes was present for free in titles made a decade ago. You can perhaps make this argument around the mobile app specifically, but Retainers? The Mog Station? Clearly there is no 'choice' being added here: there's simply money being charged for stuff that used to be included as part of the subscription. Supporting said efforts is, by definition, worsening the quality of gaming - because it convinces companies less needs to be included out of the box.

Now, don't get me wrong, if SE was lowering the cost of a subscription (or eliminating it altogether) and offering F2P-style cash shop offerings in order to offset revenue losses, that's fine. That's choice. They aren't doing that, though - they're charging as much as anyone, while also layering an obscene amount of optional subscription-based costs on top of it. That's gouging, and being happy to pay price-gouge rates really diminishes the enjoyment of everyone else, people who either can't, or won't, spend similarly.

Your whole 'free markets' argument is fine. I find no faults with that. Just don't throw around this 'more choice' bullshit. This is SE seeking to generate additional revenue from features commonly provided (for free) throughout the industry. They aren't exactly inventing anything that adds value unseen in other comparable titles.