All Greed on Alliance loot

[Neophyte]

Oh, but you get to play your main to gear an alt - yeah, because that matters. Lol.

Yes it matters to be able to play as any job I want anytime instead of being bound to a certain job.
I'm able to alternate jobs, sure, but only as long as they didnt get a drop. If I'm lucky and get DRG gear fast I'm still maybe stuck the whole next week on NIN and only NIN.
What really doesn't matter is "I want people to play as the role they want gear on just because, and I don't care that the system is unfair already with job based rolls.".

Someone said ilvl of Rabanastre is ilvl305. It matter to me that less people are inclined to use that low jobs to get an upgrade. Yay, a tank with 290 weapon and no experience, I'm so glad that he doesn't went in with his 354 DRG and made room for someone who actually can hold emnity.

As I said, I rather roll against ppl than just being screwed by game rng.
The outcome doesn't change for me, propbaly 3-6 runs a week to get my drop, with that many jobs I often greed already..
But higher ilvl and higher skill on average and being able to queue at most needed role is a good thing.

Same why ex primal greed farms are way smoother and better... instead of people wanting to replace their 310 weapon on their jobs they can't play, you actually get decent players sometimes.

With weekly lockouts and 6 drops per run, I will get my loot pretty fast now.

[Reinha]

If they are implementing this right off the bat on the 4.3 alliance raid it's a really bad idea

I'm already having a hard time getting caster gear for my main job I play without getting out looted by someone that only plays a caster job once in a blue moon

If Eureka Pagos continues the relic gear upgrades then that will be a better place to gear up your main job considering the gear would have 5 materia slots and an upgraded item level. Perhaps the devs took into account this new gear source when planning the change to alliance raid loot, and gave the two types of content a different purpose (main vs alts) to keep both relevant.

[Ageofwar]

If Eureka Pagos continues the relic gear upgrades then that will be a better place to gear up your main job considering the gear would have 5 materia slots and an upgraded item level. Perhaps the devs took into account this new gear source when planning the change to alliance raid loot, and gave the two types of content a different purpose (main vs alts) to keep both relevant.

I would say diffrently

if Eureka gear continue as the same level as Anemos it makes it a great place to gear up your alt jobs with the Tome gear on your main job (since tome gear is still at the moment a higher ilvl)

with Anemos once you get to the top level and done your first set, additional set are pretty easy to get

[NoctisXV]

True endgame, now getting your gear for your main is gonna be the new savage of FFXIV.

Just no SE, who the hell in SE thought it was a good idea ?

[MoroMurasaki]

Yes it matters to be able to play as any job I want anytime instead of being bound to a certain job.
I'm able to alternate jobs, sure, but only as long as they didnt get a drop. If I'm lucky and get DRG gear fast I'm still maybe stuck the whole next week on NIN and only NIN.
What really doesn't matter is "I want people to play as the role they want gear on just because, and I don't care that the system is unfair already with job based rolls.".

Someone said ilvl of Rabanastre is ilvl305. It matter to me that less people are inclined to use that low jobs to get an upgrade. Yay, a tank with 290 weapon and no experience, I'm so glad that he doesn't went in with his 354 DRG and made room for someone who actually can hold emnity.

As I said, I rather roll against ppl than just being screwed by game rng.
The outcome doesn't change for me, propbaly 3-6 runs a week to get my drop, with that many jobs I often greed already..
But higher ilvl and higher skill on average and being able to queue at most needed role is a good thing.

Same why ex primal greed farms are way smoother and better... instead of people wanting to replace their 310 weapon on their jobs they can't play, you actually get decent players sometimes.

With weekly lockouts and 6 drops per run, I will get my loot pretty fast now.

You must be in very good shape to perform these mental gymnastics.

Lets assume the rate at which gear drops is 6 items per run. Let's go for the healer body piece. Right now there are 7 'classes' of gear (tank/heal/caster/ranged/nin/drg/mnksam) and 6 items that can drop per set (head/chest/hands/belt/legs/feet) so this means each run I have a 1/7 chance to have that item drop. This doesn't take into account how (right now) some coffers only drop some gear, I'm erring on the side of caution.

Now that means potentially 7 runs to see that healer chest drop. Right now I have to roll against 1 other person on it so there is a 50% chance I will get the item if it does drop. That's another potential 7 runs if I lose just to see that item again.

Now lets take this in a new direction - the new all greed system. Same 6 potential drops, same 7 armor 'classes' and same 6 armor slots. Now I can be rolling against anywhere from 1 to 7 other players on the 1/7 chance the item I want actually drops.

Let's not forget this is a system that is only going to further degenerate as time goes on. The first few weeks might be okay - people running it will likely be focused on gearing specific jobs with specific items rather than greeding everything because in the short term these items are still upgrades for them... how about a month or two down the line though?

People who have been capping Mendacity every week have multiple gear sets at or above the level dropped in the new raid, these players are grabbing for desynth fodder or glam. More people who don't care what they get means more people rolling on every item. Players just reaching this content who might actually get upgrades from it are now on even footing with every other person in their group who is rolling more or less just to not miss their lockout on something. This isn't even accounting for any items that might actually be in demand for glamor or the fashion report - best of luck on those.

I have healed and dpsed for many an undergeared tank in Rabanastre - know what's worse than a squishy tank? Having to run the whole damn raid again because some DRG with no casters leveled past 30 beat me to my RDM hat.

"But there is a lockout," you guys yell, "People won't greed blindly on things!!"

Really? Are you honestly telling me you think the majority of the playerbase who is still wiping to things like Ancient Flare and the stack markers in Hashmal is informed enough to know or care about a weekly lockout on gear? I had a RDM in a Rab run I did earlier with more health than me pulling 1,800 dps with no deaths. Some people are just not as invested in this game and that's fine but let's not act like their lack of knowledge and foresight isn't going to bite a lot of people in the ass with this new system. It's elementary school math.

I've never been more thankful to have a good group of friends to play this game with - it's going to mean partying up with 7 other competent players to run Ridoranna virtually every time so that we can make sure we're fair and considerate about our loot drops. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this way either, I could see this gear system forcing a lot of players to party with friends, making the pug market even more deficient than we've seen in Rab.

A whole host of problems await everyone upon the release of this system, the only limit to the number of them is how much time you have to look at it and poke more holes.

Thank god you don't have to play a week straight as NIN though. I'm sure that makes it all worth it.

[Neophyte]

Thank god you don't have to play a week straight as NIN though. I'm sure that makes it all worth it.

Thanks. In the end I take the advantages for me and be fine.

At least I don't need to pretend that 'everyone' has only disadvantages... there are ppl who get disadvantaged, some have it better or equal, overall it's more fair (same rng for everyone everytime), average ilvl/skill should be higher, less ppl playing a job just for rolls, faster queues.

I'm fine and probably thousand of other players (most of those wanting to play more different jobs than they have jobs they need gear for) as well and if there are statistics proving one or the other "more fair" the result would be the system we'll be getting.
I value it a lot higher to play what I want (5 runs with 5 different jobs), than to have to choose a job based on chances for loot.

With this system the amount of tanks queuing will stay roughly the same (the amount of ppl wanting to tank), with the old one it gets less tanks week by week (assuming ppl who need tann gear queue as tank right now and stop queuing after they got it -> less tanks per week).


I mean srsly... bringing up things like desynth (you can't desynth or turn in new 24-man gear for up to 6 months) proofs that people dont think before they complain.
Rabanastre is almost half a year old and you still can't do that.
And no, it can't be 7 who roll on every item, 7nppl rolling on an item can occur once in the whole run.
When I aim for something which drops at 1st and 4th boss, at the 4th boss I will never, never, ever have 7 competitors, unless 5 pieces dropped to the ground.

And if ppl roll blindly at everything even better. Every belt and bad gear then means one less person rolling on the good stuff.

It stays, i rather ask myself 'what do I want to play' than 'what do I need to gear'.

[Alleo]

There are lots of reasons why people might not have the ilevel to get into Alliance Raids on a particular job. Maybe they just hit 70 that day. Maybe they've been leveling a bunch of jobs and already spent all their Verity. Maybe they just don't play as much. Regardless, when the stated main purpose of Alliance Raids is supposed to be to gear up alts, but you're not able to gear up your alts with it, then the system has failed.

And now you still might fail to gear your alts because more people can roll on stuff and you might not even get the gear that you need for your main either.

Tank being hardest job? In 24-player raids? Are we talking about the same game? Very often you have the three tanks taking something like 5 minutes to pull anything, if they ever do pull. You see them not picking the adds all the time, and doing some e-peen contest on who will do more enmity on the boss. So please, don't try to tell me that tanking is hard and that it should reward you with guaranteed loot. That's nonsense. I main WAR btw.

Still harder than DDs (I am saying this as a main DD). A DD can do barely any mechanic right, be death 90% of the content and barely do any DPS and they would still get a clear if the rest is good enough. Honestly for me the hardest job would be healer and they are now hurt with this change too..

And no, it can't be 7 who roll on every item, 7nppl rolling on an item can occur once in the whole run.
When I aim for something which drops at 1st and 4th boss, at the 4th boss I will never, never, ever have 7 competitors, unless 5 pieces dropped to the ground.

Never ever is a bit bad because it can happen. There will be people that will roll on everything to just get something and there will be people that will only roll on something specific that they want. You never know which one of those is in your group and thus it can really happen that you are at the last boss and 6 other people roll on the same loot. The very loot that you might have gotten with one need roll might now get to someone that does not need it.

IMO the majority of the players probably dont have so many jobs leveled on 70 so hurting mains because someone leveled up all of their jobs and somehow want them all geared up too is just bad. (And lets not talk about those that want to have certain glamour items..even if you wanted a tank gear piece and you went in as a tank you might have months till you get it because it might just never drop..but at least if it drops you will get it..now you might just never get the item at all)

You also talk about statistics, yet your are the minority in this thread so can you really argue that most in the game would be fine with that?

In the end the old system never stopped you from getting items if you wanted them for alts. If you play all jobs and want them geared up then why not just simply play as that job?

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

I honestly can't stomach the idea of decomstructing another one of your incredibly poorly worded posts so I'll leave it at this - mathematically the all greed system is going to give players less control over what loot they get. This is likely the endgame reasoning by SE for this shift as it will extend the longevity of the content by adding more runs when the window of loot you are willing to accept narrows.

You're incredibly naive to buy into this and it is going to impact you just as negatively as it does everyone else unless you're willing to cast an exceedingly wide net and just greed virtually everything that drops.

It seems like either you're incapable of understanding the full discussion or you've decided that you're right and won't see anything but the perspective you've deemed correct. Either way you come out of this blind to the plethora of issues awaiting both you and everyone else. I hope your ignorance is nice while it lasts.

[Derio]

I honestly dont see how this benefits the playerbase.

If anything it screws several players over. Mostly healers and tanks.

[Neophyte]

I honestly can't stomach the idea of decomstructing another one of your incredibly poorly worded posts so I'll leave it at this - mathematically the all greed system is going to give players less control over what loot they get. This is likely the endgame reasoning by SE for this shift as it will extend the longevity of the content by adding more runs when the window of loot you are willing to accept narrows.

You're incredibly naive to buy into this and it is going to impact you just as negatively as it does everyone else unless you're willing to cast an exceedingly wide net and just greed virtually everything that drops.

It seems like either you're incapable of understanding the full discussion or you've decided that you're right and won't see anything but the perspective you've deemed correct. Either way you come out of this blind to the plethora of issues awaiting both you and everyone else. I hope your ignorance is nice while it lasts.

Still not seeing why those points should be wrong:
1) overall it's more fair (same rng for everyone everytime)
2) average ilvl/skill should be higher, less ppl playing a job just for rolls
3) faster queues, because more stable amount of tanks/healer/dps queuing each week

And you won't convinve me that choosing a job based on loot chances is more fun than just playing what I want to play.
Even if it means I need to run 1-2 more times, guess what... I don't care that much. I don't look at the 24-man as something I have to endure so that I can finally get an upgrade.
I just like to play on different jobs and be able to try my luck on every interesting item with a fair (to stress it: the current system is not fair) and transparent system.
Todays, mathematically a healer has it harder to get a piece in x runs than a tank. A DRG always has it easier than a MNK and both have it easier than a caster. Period.
Funny how people ignore and belittle that, but blow the assumed downsides of the proposed change out of proportion.

And sure, I'm starting with a wide net and greed on many items at the start. I mean sure, if there are 1-2 intesting pieces for 7 jobs, I take the first one I get. And yes, I get a lot of my items per greed roll already.
But as the interesting items get fewer and fewer with each drop/week, so do the jobs I can choose from.