All Greed on Alliance loot

[Reinha]

And that's why healers and tanks are as in demand in that sort of content as they are in the rest of the game and unless you have tanks on hand it takes forever to get a queue going.

I just tried it on the Chaos data center and it was 6 minutes as caster to get into O7, which is outdated content and has 2 tank slots. There is no reason it would be any worse in alliance raids after the loot method change.

On the other hand, 8 minutes into Rabanastre queue the group has 3/3 tanks, 5/6 healers and only 6/15 dps. It seems to me that if a few people swap to dps it's actually going to reduce queue times for alliance raids since dps are in demand. Great!

[Sapphire_Dianta]

I'm honestly baffled by this change. Who exactly is this meant to help? Was this even a problem to begin with? Surely it'd be far easier to gear up an alt by using Poetics on Ironworks/Shire rather than relying on drops from Lv50/60 raids. All this does is screw over people hunting for shiny glamour.

[Derio]

I have no gripe on it for old Alliance Raids. But when 4.3 comes out and the new gear comes out and the tank chest drops only to see a dps get it when I'm the one tanking. It might be a heartbreak that would make me want to leave the instance right there on the spot.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

Okay, so why is this a thing now? Its going to be impossible to collect at full set with a system like this. Why even implement it like this? So people can gear alts? If they wanted to gear it up, they should come as that job, why make it easier for them to gear alts they clearly don't want to play? People who want to gear their mains are going to be punished by people who want gear for jobs they won't play! How is this fair?

I would be happy if they added a weekly token you could exchange for gear, that way it would be a bit less frustrating when trying to get that last lousy piece for the set, like 8 man raids do it.

[dynus]

I'm just scratching my head as to why they'd do this. You can only get one item a week when it's first released.

Like, I can see the benefit if you're running a tank or healer but your main is DPS. But still, DPS gets in faster in alliance raids than most content.

[InkstainedGwyn]

If it's just for roulette (which I hope) I'll be okay with it. I don't particularly /like/ it, but I'll be okay. If it's for the new raid, though? Heck no.

[BillyKaplan]

If it's just for roulette (which I hope) I'll be okay with it. I don't particularly /like/ it, but I'll be okay. If it's for the new raid, though? Heck no.

Thing is, we saw through the MSQ changes that it doesn't seem like they can change the content depending on how you queue into it. The MSQ roulette changes were baked into the duties themselves. So even if their intent was just the roulette and not the direct duties (cuz they were talking about gearing alt jobs and why would you do that with old raids), it'll probably be changed in the duties themselves.

[InkstainedGwyn]

Thing is, we saw through the MSQ changes that it doesn't seem like they can change the content depending on how you queue into it. The MSQ roulette changes were baked into the duties themselves. So even if their intent was just the roulette and not the direct duties (cuz they were talking about gearing alt jobs and why would you do that with old raids), it'll probably be changed in the duties themselves.

My cynicism says you're right. My hopes say, 'maybe it's something they can build into the weekly cap' and need won't go away until it does. Still, I don't hold much hope.

[Fyce]

They are also one of the hardest roles in the game and hardly any people actually run tanks as mains. SE bends over backwards repeatedly trying to get people to play tanks, and now in one fell swoop they're nerfing one of the things tanks had going for them.

Tank being hardest job? In 24-player raids? Are we talking about the same game? Very often you have the three tanks taking something like 5 minutes to pull anything, if they ever do pull. You see them not picking the adds all the time, and doing some e-peen contest on who will do more enmity on the boss. So please, don't try to tell me that tanking is hard and that it should reward you with guaranteed loot. That's nonsense. I main WAR btw.

Which wasn't quite as horrible as rolling against 7 other players. You're basically saying tanks shouldn't be an exception because you can get five DRGs in a party but this will hurt those 5 DRGs as well by piling up even more competition. But let's make it something else. DRG, NIN, SAM, MCH and an RDM. Tank. Sounds nice but the healers always had to roll against someone else. Always. Another high difficulty, high demand, low supply job who already had to deal with eternal competition, now get to compete against 6 other more people.

Stop with the "rolling against 7 other players" thing. The chances of that happening are so low that it's not even worth considering. So making at argument out of it is absurd.

It gets people to play healers and tanks. That might be the one reason why they did it that I can think of, by letting people get healer and tank gear as DPS, they're hoping to even out the queues a bit because that's the one piece of content in the game where dps is the Adventurer in Need. But they're going at it the wrong way, imo, and might just make tanks and healers be in demand again because why should people run those roles if they can get the items on their dps?

God forbid we have a system where people can play whatever they want to enjoy playing without being punished for it, heh.

DPS can have zero competition as well, I've had it more than my fair share of times running alliance raids. And yes, it's absolutely fair that if you run a job, you get the gear for it. That's how it works literally everywhere else in the game with the exception of content that has token systems in place. Which would've been a much wiser course of action here.

Token systems have their own flaws too. The tomestone one doesn't bring any sense of satisfaction. The 8-players normal raid one can be worse than the 24-raid they want to do (ever tried to get a shaft during the first 4 weeks?). Tokens are far from perfect.
Anyway, enphasis on the word can you used here: "DPS can have zero competition as well". This word alone proves me right. There is an imbalance within the current system where some jobs have an easier time than others. And no, that's not fair.

How dare they roll on something they actually play.

24-players raids are a joke, filled with players who go in with an alt-job they don't even know how to play. With this change, at least people will run with whatever job they are the most comfortable with. And maybe we will have less of a sh*tshow in these instances. Oh and, that's also a good fix to regulate queue times, as flexible people would just queue as the fastest job to get in. Which is a win for everyone. And if it can make some people play tanks/healers without having to rely on a broken loot system, then that's even better.
Whatever the case, you failed to see my point. People can already roll on something they don't want. The only restriction is to play as that job. Which is not a big deal at all.

They should do that regardless. It also increases the odds of duplicate items, which means that even if someone rolled a Need on it, the duplicate by definition cannot be rolled on by that person, leaving it open for Greeding.

With the current system, you'd still keep the unjustified imbalance of some jobs having a better chance at getting something than others.

[maxxvoltage4]

I can only agree with this IF...
A.) The alliance raid they are talking about is old content (crystal tower, Mhach)

B.) this is only implemented after 2 months of the new content being released.

I feel this is the only reasonable compromise for this particular change.