Bunny outfits for men, not a cryptid!

[kikix12]

1. The world was not always like this, you yourself admitted as much with the pants example. Things can change.

Except...which direction should the world try to change in this case? There's the direction of artificially limiting clothing of sorts to only men or the direction of making everything considered unisex.

The nature of the changes that happen currently suggest that making everything wearable by anyone is the way to go though. And that kinda defeats the arguments here, rather than supporting them. At the same time, as much as I hate admitting it, women in pants do look more appealing than men in skirts ever will. It's something that requires wide-spread changes in culture that would require generations of directed molding of the younger folk. And for what purpose?

2. There are movements all over the world fighting to change how the world is. That's defeatist attitude right there, what you're saying. So yeah, we're not going to move mountains with our little video game revolution. But dammit let me wear more glamours, I'm even willing to pay for them!

"I'm even willing to pay for them" is the defeatist attitude here. You are already paying the sub. You, me or anyone else should NOT have to pay for ANYTHING AT ALL anymore. If the subs don't give them enough then they should either increase the subs or make the game appeal to more gamers to increase their numbers. From what I heard though, the subs are far more than enough, but are entirely just sent to other games instead of left here.

As for the movements, there are a lot of movements to change the world in a lot of aspects...but most of those changes I'd literally abhor. So unless you'll bring up a specific one (or at least a specific ideology), I cannot really comment on it.

People don't wear what they want to in real life because then they might be beaten, stabbed, kicked out of their houses or murdered. Part of why people want to have those options within the relatively safe environment of a video game where they can block the naysayers without fearing for their lives.

Hahaha. You really do not seem to know people all that well if that's what you think. Are there people that are scared for their well-being?! Certainly. There are places in the world where you could earn yourself a stab in the back for literally anything, let alone being a guy in a dress. But you would be surprised how powerful the notion of "what will the people/neighbors say!", where the backtalk is really the worst case scenario. And that is FAR more common. Since you know...People when their lives aren't threatened do tend to look for problems in the smaller things by instinct, just like by instinct they tend to try to explain everything in whatever way they can before even trying to research it. So there is a lot of "small issues" in the world that are exaggerated even to the point that completely ridiculous laws are made for something that should be a non-issue.

Not saying there won't be those people, but there will also be a lot of people who wear it as legitimate gender expression.

Sure, there probably will. But I'm afraid I am in the camp that would prefer games to hold onto a specific stylistic path and have multiple games each representing one or the other. Instead all we get are games that try to fit em all.

When can I get a fantasy game without pig outfits, bunny ears, bikini armors, halloween costumes, spring dresses and all that jazz that shouldn't come anywhere near combat even approaching the game? Probably never, because "one size fits them all" is prevalent...And size if something is for everyone it is for no one...we have issues like this where no one can win and everyone is shafted repeatedly.
Before talking about "gender expression" (which, I'm sorry, I know only three of...male, female or the rare hermaphrodite, since gender is a biological thing and all that stuff is just style preferences), where is the games expression? It becomes more and more diluted.


As I said before, I am in support of more glamours for both genders in a variety of styles. But there SHOULD be a point when something is just "too much" out there. Ironically, at the same time, I couldn't care less about humans tastes in real life. I can always look the other way if something really is unappealing to me. In a game though that's not possible, especially since part of the game is all about paying attention to other players.
*Sigh* There should never have been any bunny suit glamour for players in this game in the first place, male or female...

[BillyKaplan]

Instead all we get are games that try to fit em all.

It's almost like they're trying to mirror society that has all those things in it at once...

since gender is a biological

Sex is the biological thing. Gender is a social construct.

In a game though that's not possible, especially since part of the game is all about paying attention to other players.

And yet so many people manage to do exactly that.

More on topic, I've reached the point of excitement for this stupid outfit. I want it out already so I can see if my glamour ideas will work or not @w@

[Qojon]

It's almost like they're trying to mirror society that has all those things in it at once...

Sex is the biological thing. Gender is a social construct.

Too true. I sexually identify as an attack helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the terrain and dropping things on people. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is impossible and I’m being silly, but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache” and respect my right to fire weapons from above and take out my targets. If you can’t accept me then you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

[kikix12]

It's almost like they're trying to mirror society that has all those things in it at once...

Well, hence why I was always against the idea of "spreading X", be it democracy, freedom and the like. The only universal value should be the right to leave so that people could pick the country they want to live in. Except...maintaining a fixed path in a game is far easier than it could ever be in real life.

Sex is the biological thing. Gender is a social construct.

Well...I blame internet and games from which I learned English. Fundamentally they both were just about seen as synonyms in my eyes, with use of "sex" being rarely used for obvious reasons. Part of it being all sorts of filters blocking the word, keh...

And yet so many people manage to do exactly that.

That's physically impossible. I am not talking here about a symbolical looking the other way. I won't really say much if anything to people whatever glamour they choose, nor will base my interactions with them on that. Unless they are my friends that is. Complaining to those is fair game. However, I will see them even if I don't want to exactly so that I can do what I log on to do...play.

That being said...this is getting too far away from the topic. The point is and will not change that the state of "gender locks" on gear in games is taken from real-life social situation of clothing being either "women only" or unisex in practice. Until THAT changes, trying to change games is unlikely. Especially because most developers do specifically follow the real-world trends like that instead of trying to define a clear path for themselves. In a way, I guess that this last part here is what both of us can agree is bad, even if for two different reasons.

[BillyKaplan]

Well...I blame internet and games from which I learned English. Fundamentally they both were just about seen as synonyms in my eyes, with use of "sex" being rarely used for obvious reasons. Part of it being all sorts of filters blocking the word, keh...

You're good, it's a differentiation that's a rather more recent thing.

In a way, I guess that this last part here is what both of us can agree is bad, even if for two different reasons.

Amen. Which is why I still say that these outfits making it into the game, even if mostly as a joke and to get us off their back, is frigging huge.

[Lukha]

Question is, what exactly do you want them to make (and is it something that only female staff members will be comfortable with making)?

ASSUMING they didn't just unlock everything with no alterations, which, after thinking about it a bit, I would really be okay with...
For Edda, the most logical masculine style would be something along the lines of:

using the same colors/textures and decorations. They could keep the other slot-pieces the same, or maybe make the witch's hat a top-hat instead. We already have a few similar (though not as fancy) pieces in game, so I can't imagine even our apparently very delicate male devs being uncomfortable with it. Other items like the wedding dress could easily follow in this style - a fancier, closed-front coat reusing assets from the dress (namely the embroidery, and the lacy top section of the skirt as the bottom hem of the coat) would be a nice trade-off for the ladies getting the groom's suit. The maid outfit...of all things, should really just be unlocked as-is; I'm honestly not sure you could make a 'male' version of something that specific without totally losing the point.


Most other gear could probably be unlocked as-is; at most you might want to remove the white part of Lyse's jacket and make some adjustments to the chest area of the Thav bustier so that it looks natural? Y'shtola's HW outfit falls right in line with typical Healer gear, though, so no one should even bat an eye at a guy wearing her coat, and the shorts that come with it would fill a sorely lacking niche in the current male fashion options (and if you absolutely hate them, well, it's not like male characters are wanting for slacks you could swap in instead).

The 'opposite' to Edda would be Nybeth Obdilord's gear.

While that's true in the sense that he is also an NPC in the same sidequest as her, you can't honestly look at a that ragged cowl (That would likely end up as a single-piece glamour) and think that it is in any way equivalent to or a fair replacement for Edda's beautiful gothic-styled dress. Though they could certainly release it as additional, unisex glamour; it's not my cup of tea, but I'm sure there's someone out there wishing for a piece exactly like that.

[BillyKaplan]

fancy coat

I would love something along those styles, and we do have a few pieces in the game already that show they can do it. The High House Justaucorps comes to mind, and oddly enough, the Dun Scaith healer coat. I really wouldn't mind they revisited this style of coat more often and between the length and the frills, it would make a good match for most long, fluffy dresses like Edda's.

[Alleo]

Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit. Is Chippendale even a thing in Japan? Perhaps going forward, people should have some kind of concept art to show Yoshi-P so the team doesn't mistake what the fans really want?

How exactly should people tell SE what they wanted? We have no direct mail that we can write and people did post on the forum that that they either wanted the same or something different. If they dont take the informations from the forum and only some interviews or things like that than I kinda wonder why we even have a forum at all. I play a female character as a real female myself yet I still feel that they could have at least change the top a bit..it really looks like some of those males have breasts..I just wonder why it took them so long to do that..

[Nestama]

While that's true in the sense that he is also an NPC in the same sidequest as her, you can't honestly look at a that ragged cowl (That would likely end up as a single-piece glamour) and think that it is in any way equivalent to or a fair replacement for Edda's beautiful gothic-styled dress. Though they could certainly release it as additional, unisex glamour; it's not my cup of tea, but I'm sure there's someone out there wishing for a piece exactly like that.

Oh, I'm not saying a tattered mage robe would be a fair alternative. I'm just saying that if SE were going to release a male-exclusive PotD NPC gear, Nybeth's mouldy old dead man robes would probably have been their first thought :T
There's a few female exclusive glamours in the game already that would look natural on guys (maybe weird on Roegadyn, depends on the design) and you've mentioned two already. The Gold Saucer rabbit outfit I can kinda understand why guys would be uncomfortable with designing on male characters, but things like Y'shtola's HW outfit and Lyse's before Ala Mhigo outfit would look pretty natural on guys.

The only time I ever have issues with feminine-like gear is when it's progression gear (tome and raid. Maybe dungeons... really hate that Skalla gear). I did not like most of the Caster/Healer gear throughout HW (there are some exceptions, but blegh to most of them) because they just didn't look good on my Roe. Shiva gear, BLM, WHM and SMN AF2 gear (though to be fair, I think the BLM AF2 looked awful on everyone), Void Ark gear and Weeping City gear. I was not a fan of any of those :I

[BillyKaplan]

.it really looks like some of those males have breasts..

To be fair, even the lowest slider value for the muscle tone would still leave your guy pretty ripped, with some of the biggest changes being how flat their belly is compared to an eight-pack, so they all have a certain amount of male boobs. That said, I agree, they could've... done something so it wouldn't like quite like... that. Glad I wasn't the only one who saw it >.>;