Healing responsibilities after 1.20

[Jinrya-Geki]

If Cjn DD output is even slightly the same as Thm/Blm, then Thm/blm is useless.

Just because Cjn has the spells to solo doesn't mean they have to. And if the situation goes sour, then could still have decent cures over Thm/Blm.

[HiirNoivl]

All classes do something. But only one class is best at one thing. Conj are not "Cure Only" but they are BEST cure. THM are not nuke/debuff only but will have the BEST nukes/debuffs.

My position is based on that. I don't think people are going to trade a best cures for Not-as-good nukes in a party situation, when they can just as easily have a BEST cure and a BEST nuke

[TinnySnips]

All classes do something. But only one class is best at one thing. Conj are not "Cure Only" but they are BEST cure. THM are not nuke/debuff only but will have the BEST nukes/debuffs.

My position is based on that. I don't think people are going to trade a best cures for Not-as-good nukes in a party situation, when they can just as easily have a BEST cure and a BEST nuke

I agree that every class is going to be best at something. CON will be the best healer, and THM will be the best nuker... but their debuff abilities are rather pitiful, just look at the list.

[HiirNoivl]

Well, we'll have to see.

Conj may have debuffs but I doubt they'll be useful in a pitched battle against an NM to the point where it will be worth spending the action/MPs to cast them over the other classes in the party doing debuffs (like Dragoon for example)

[grandm]

my thoughts and i am speculating like every1 else, CON = high magic healing potency, not sure how base stats or traits at a guess. THM = high magic damage potency, i bet a THM casting a CON's nukes will do more damge, as spells work off the stat i just mentioned, so in this case CON would be wasting its MP to cast its nukes in a group as others have already stated, and THM will have place as a straight up DD. also i would be very surprised if WHM didn't lose its nukes when you put the job stone in, we have been told class can solo but job can't, if WHM didn't lose its nukes there would be nothing stopping it solo'ing

[Sephrick]

If Cjn DD output is even slightly the same as Thm/Blm, then Thm/blm is useless.

Just because Cjn has the spells to solo doesn't mean they have to. And if the situation goes sour, then could still have decent cures over Thm/Blm.

Well the good thing is that Thm's combo bonuses are all about squeezing the most damage out of each mp in addition to some crowd control.

Ice causes heavy or bind.

The fire combo bonus reduced recast time.

Lightning has a chance to stun, and if stun doesn't proc the damage is increased and recast reduced. Second tier lightning raises magic crit rate.

Obviously Thm/Blm will be the premier nuker everyone wants it to be.

My point about Cnj is that with the current spells, it takes constant curing to keep up with damage. It's already hard enough to manage hate with three levels of Cure and Sacrifice and multiple tiers of Curaga.

Now they're suppose to manage curing the entire party with a small cure, a large cure and a Curaga but still respect the hate threshold? Sure, they're getting an ability that halves enmity but that will only go so far if one is cure bombing.

To boot, that "halves enmity" ability also restores MP and can be used by anyone. Thus making it a must-have for everyone.

The point is, I'm not saying Cnj should excel at nuking, but they're given these awesome debuffs and should get a chance to use them effectively. Meaning they need to cast the combos till the debuffs stick.

But the only way CNJ will ever do more than cast cure is if healing is a shared responsibility while the best healer -- i.e. Cnj -- tend to priority targets like the tank or those who pull hate.

The whole thing is, to be able to try and stick these debuffs, CNJ needs to the two spells in uninterrupted succession. But with the way damage is dealt now, a tank would be dead by that time.

All classes do something. But only one class is best at one thing. Conj are not "Cure Only" but they are BEST cure. THM are not nuke/debuff only but will have the BEST nukes/debuffs.

My position is based on that. I don't think people are going to trade a best cures for Not-as-good nukes in a party situation, when they can just as easily have a BEST cure and a BEST nuke

As I said above. It's not so much about the damage dealt by the nukes as it is the fact that the combo can boost everyone else's output. Is it not worth it to spread healing responsibilities a little so Cnj can help everyone else be better at their role?

[TinnySnips]

Well, we'll have to see.

Conj may have debuffs but I doubt they'll be useful in a pitched battle against an NM to the point where it will be worth spending the action/MPs to cast them over the other classes in the party doing debuffs (like Dragoon for example)

I'm starting to think that we are looking at two different ability lists. I'm not seeing any debuffs going to Dragoon other than stun, and I see nothing on that list with anywhere near the DPS benefit of DMG+ and ACC+. Once again, MP, proc rate, and effect potency/duration will make the determination, but they are potentially the best debuffs you can land. If the effect is great enough then they will be a must on encounters of any significant duration.

[Junpei]

my thoughts and i am speculating like every1 else, CON = high magic healing potency, not sure how base stats or traits at a guess. THM = high magic damage potency, i bet a THM casting a CON's nukes will do more damge, as spells work off the stat i just mentioned, so in this case CON would be wasting its MP to cast its nukes in a group as others have already stated, and THM will have place as a straight up DD. also i would be very surprised if WHM didn't lose its nukes when you put the job stone in, we have been told class can solo but job can't, if WHM didn't lose its nukes there would be nothing stopping it solo'ing

They said you would be limited to classes skills, i cant see them losing the skills when equipping the job stone but i can definitely see a massively diminished effect of nuking alongside a greatly enforced healing skill.

Much in the same way paladin is going to haveto sacrifice some of HP and STR in order to garner the largest defensive stats.

[grandm]

They said you would be limited to classes skills, i cant see them losing the skills when equipping the job stone but i can definitely see a massively diminished effect of nuking alongside a greatly enforced healing skill.

Much in the same way paladin is going to haveto sacrifice some of HP and STR in order to garner the largest defensive stats.

it don't really matter if they take the nukes away or just make them near useless, i can't see WHM ever using nukes

[TinnySnips]

it don't really matter if they take the nukes away or just make them near useless, i can't see WHM ever using nukes

Unless the point of using them is not the damage they do, but increasing the damage potential of the party by increasing DMG and ACC against the target.