Lily a little unnecessary?

[Eloah]

OMG, this thread scared me a sec, you really should change the title if you can. You meant Lilies, as in the WHM mechanic. Lily, is the faerie. I'm sure a lot of SCH clicked on this thread ready to question why, lol

[basketofseals]

????????????

Lilies have no appreciable positive impact on your mana pool. You're not saving much mana with a ~12s recast reduction on a select few oGCDs, especially when you're spending mana to generate them in the first place.

If you get smashed into the face with magic hammer or just die at an inopportune time, then you're going to be casting a lot more cure 1s than normal. 20% off on 4 oGCDs can go a long way when you're treading water.

[Cheremia]

If you get smashed into the face with magic hammer or just die at an inopportune time, then you're going to be casting a lot more cure 1s than normal. 20% off on 4 oGCDs can go a long way when you're treading water.

But Medica, Medica 2, Cure 3 and Assize want to have a word with you?
And no,a ssize does nto care about lillies

How many people do you heal with cure 1 instead of using 1 Cure 2 on each? Or, aoe heal. Where ARE these people if you can't hit them with aoes?

[Mimilu]

But Medica, Medica 2, Cure 3 and Assize want to have a word with you?
And no,a ssize does nto care about lillies

How many people do you heal with cure 1 instead of using 1 Cure 2 on each? Or, aoe heal. Where ARE these people if you can't hit them with aoes?

There's also Regen and Asylum too.
Never underestimate the power of a good HoT.

[basketofseals]

But Medica, Medica 2, Cure 3 and Assize want to have a word with you?
And no,a ssize does nto care about lillies

How many people do you heal with cure 1 instead of using 1 Cure 2 on each? Or, aoe heal. Where ARE these people if you can't hit them with aoes?

If you died at an inopportune time, such as just after popping lucid dreaming, then I am not even speaking the same language as cure 3. You should definitely be priming your lilies for assize in that situation because nothing is less efficient than being unable to do anything because you have no mana.

Perhaps if you actually took the time to actually read what I wrote instead of inserting your completely unrelated hypthoticals you could actually have an argument. /salt

[Mimilu]

If you died at an inopportune time, such as just after popping lucid dreaming, then I am not even speaking the same language as cure 3. You should definitely be priming your lilies for assize in that situation because nothing is less efficient than being unable to do anything because you have no mana.

Why prime 3 Lilies to use Assize when you can just use Assize normally? Especially if you just got rezed and need MP (and maybe help heal the party)?
If you're priming all 3 Lilies before every ability effected by them, then you're just over-healing and wasting MP.
Or are you holding on to the abilities, waiting til you get enough Lilies? That's just adding extra stress for yourself.

[VanilleFang]

EDIT: This is meant to be what to do after you are raised.


If you have Lucid or Thin Air avaliable, you pop one or both and your MP should be fine.

If you have Assize you should use it as soon as possible, trying to get as much healing out of it as you can. Using 3 Cures and then casting Assize is usually a waste of GCDs and MP. A 20% CD reduction on Assize is 12 seconds, sure, but you would have to spend ~7.5 seconds priming it, effectively only reducing the CD by ~4.5 seconds.

But let's say you don't have any of the three above abilities ready, what should you do? I, personally, always drop a Tetra or Bene (if avaliable) on myself first. If those aren't ready then I'll use Cure II. Next I check to see if the tank has Regen, if not I cast it along with Divine Benison to be safe. At this point I see how many others need healing. Using oGCDs, Medicas, and the occasional Cure II I can easily keep everyone up.

And remember, this is excluding the possibility of you having another healer with you, and/or a caster/ranged who can give you MP.

[Cheremia]

The thing is: I died after using lucid. Every whm did at one point or another.
Every whm also died after using thin air.
But you usually should rotate them around so one or the other SHOULD be up after a res. Or at least close to being up.

Then i use tetra+regen on myself if needed. Then i protect. then i make sure I survive FIRST.
At NO point EVER, did i think about the lillies first. The only time was cure1/2+divine bension on big trash pulls in dungeons. For tank buster? Used after healing them (if i didn't use tetra for the buster) and even that was not needed.
Now that i don't need lillies anymore i care even less about them.

They did not change my playstyle at all and will never do so.
If emergencies happen, i will cure people after i res them(or got ressed) but if they're stupid and move instead of waiting and NOT instantly dying again they're not top priority anymore.

I don't know where lillies should change ANYTHING on skills you don't use when they're off cooldown usually... Like the only skill would be Assize if you know you don't use it on an aoe. But where to even GET them from? I heal with medica2 most of the time...

Also no, i do not forget about regen and asylum. Asylum sees not a LOT of uses (I'm actually trying to use it more at the moment because i'm a lazy holy main). But i try to have regen ups on tanks almost all of the time (even in raids if the tank isn't mine)

It's just... if you try to play for lillies you might be surprised: Everything works out just fine without them. The amount of times i hit 3 WILLINGLY... i can count on one hand.
Other times it was healing other alliances in raids... or on mega trashpulls where i'm forced to heal because the tank has tissue armor... but like, planned? Like... never?

[basketofseals]

Why prime 3 Lilies to use Assize when you can just use Assize normally? Especially if you just got rezed and need MP (and maybe help heal the party)?
If you're priming all 3 Lilies before every ability effected by them, then you're just over-healing and wasting MP.
Or are you holding on to the abilities, waiting til you get enough Lilies? That's just adding extra stress for yourself.

Since Assize should be used on cooldown, so I don't think too much of an assumption that you have plenty of time to build lilies in the meantime. It might not seem like much, and in some cases it might not even matter at all, but if you're about to head into a heavy AoE phase like the Gaurdian's second add, then having your assize up 12 seconds earlier can make a difference.

You're going to have to heal sometime, and you shouldn't be cure 2ing at such a low mana level. It's not such an unusual thing to build a lily here and there. Just instead of waiting for the tank to get low and then burst him up with CDs, just throw in an extra cure or two right before assize comes up. Just avoid accidentally blowing them on a benison or something, that's all. I'm not advocating for sitting there farming for lillies for every CD. Cure 1 is the exact same mana as Stone 4 after all.

If you have Lucid or Thin Air avaliable, you pop one or both and your MP should be fine.

...

And remember, this is excluding the possibility of you having another healer with you, and/or a caster/ranged who can give you MP.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Lucid Dreaming and Thin Air should be used on CD. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that it would not be available in this circumstance. Mana batteries are certainly nice, but there's no guarantee those abilities are also not on cooldown, or even if you have those jobs in your raid. Isn't the common application of Tactician to extend Foe's Requiem use?

Mana shift would do the job sufficiently, but I find players rather reticent to use it. Should they even take it? Apocatastasis, Addle, Diversion, Lucid Dreaming, and Swiftcast all have very useful and strategic applications. It's your opinion on whether you should put a little added burden on the group to carry recovery tools. Personally I think you should, but not all would agree.

[VanilleFang]

snip.

I'm a tad confused. My post was built on hypothetical, and listed multiple scenarios. Sometimes you can forget to use a CD, so it might be up. Sometimes your raise aligns with a CD coming off CD. Sometimes you have multiple CDs avaliable. Sometimes you don't have any CDs.

My point was that using Cure I is hardly ever an efficient use of your GCD. Even with low MP you have other tools that can help you heal through until you get you MP back up. Why would I use 3 Cures if I could instead use Regen and Divine Benison?