Eureka unplayable at times

[BunnyChain]

Serket used Lag aoe attack™, it was beyond effective!



This is completely new scenario to SE, no way they could have seen it coming! /s

[RiceisNice]

Then they're incompetent. It's that simple. NMs give overwhelmingly more return on time invested, and players can directly influence spawning them. If they don't know that players are good optimizers and will always optimize for return on time invested, then they haven't been paying attention to what players have done in the past at all.

Much like how the combat design encourages healer DPS, Eureka's design encourages the NM train. If they didn't intend that, then it's on them.


Quote of the day, right there. The issue STILL happens with Ixion to this day on my server. There is no possible way they can't know about it, and they designed content that encourages it to happen by making the most valuable thing to do clumping up on a single mob, along with putting more people in the instance than the server can handle when they group up.

I mean, who decided it was okay to release in this state with known problems like this?

Funny enough, when hunts were first released on 2.0, we had this exact same issue with culling mobs before unpartied players. They eventually implemented a fix on that, but that just makes it even more astounding that they let this slide again in a instanced content that packs so many players. That and the debuff limit (and enmity list) makes it utter hell for classes like MCH to generate heat or apply wildfire. They've designed content that does not take into mind the limitations they have in place (debuff limit specifically), or outright forgot the problems that similiar content has already caused (model culling)

[ReplicaX]

I feel like they are going to have some kind of adjustment soon to nerf NM's, I doubt this what they intended for the game mode so hopefully something is done to spread people out in the zone

Not everyone does the "NM Train". Plenty of parties XP grind on NM trigger mobs the train isn't working on at their party's lvl.

They knew this would happen regardless of the method of spawning, all players unless their elemental lvl gap is huge are going to NMs that are spawned.

I also find it hard to believe that they didn't anticipate the gaps in player elemental levels and not introduce a party sync feature. Many players want to play this content with their FC or friends or teach new players to Eureka the system. I completely understand they don't want low levels power leveled by higher lvl players, but to not give an option to sync a party fighting trash mobs is rather silly.

[Tridus]

Funny enough, when hunts were first released on 2.0, we had this exact same issue with culling mobs before unpartied players. They eventually implemented a fix on that, but that just makes it even more astounding that they let this slide again in a instanced content that packs so many players. That and the debuff limit (and enmity list) makes it utter hell for classes like MCH to generate heat or apply wildfire. They've designed content that does not take into mind the limitations they have in place (debuff limit specifically), or outright forgot the problems that similiar content has already caused (model culling)

Yeah. It sucks as a healer because my party also vanishes and I can't do my job effectively, just resorting to the "cast AoE healing and pray to the server gods" method. It sucks as a class like MCH because it breaks how the class plays.

I mean, they should know what their own server limits are. They can see them in production today. Set the zone limit low enough that this can't happen and you solve a major problem by tweaking a configuration variable. For something that was so delayed, there's no excuse for this problem to exist.

[ReplicaX]

I mean, they should know what their own server limits are. They can see them in production today. Set the zone limit low enough that this can't happen and you solve a major problem by tweaking a configuration variable. For something that was so delayed, there's no excuse for this problem to exist.

This brought a possible temp solution in mind, though I still rather have a party lvl sync. What if they split instances by lvls temporarily due to so many ppl playing it, 72 players in instance and the option to join Elemental Level 1-10 or 10-20? Idk, just a thought. Likely too much recoding and adjustments though.

[Usho]

FFXI had the kinda system that could handle large groups of people in a single zone (Besieged anyone?). If the PS2/PC era could handle it, why can't a PS4/PC era game like FFXIV (which has more enhanced graphics compared to FFXI) handle it? Very odd. -_-


Ninja Edit: This shows that the devs have lack of foresight. I'm sure some of them are experienced with how FFXI handled something like this, yet they couldn't have foreseen something this obvious happening? Time to get good dev team. /shrugs

[Remedi]

I can tell you even with a new team the problems won't be fixed, the problem is the system at the root not the ones coding atm. If you ask a change in the team without fixing the problem that is really the casue of all the limitations you won't ever see any change

[Mikki]

Not to mention the "DC lag" as I call it. Where often times, especially when the "train" is moving from one location to another, you will get a DC sign above your head and your game will lock up. Especially frustrating because in order to move around the map safely, you NEED to move as a group. Some people distract monsters and die, others rez them.. it works out well enough. But when you're lagging behind because of DC and 90k errors then it becomes really difficult to play the game.

I always get so annoyed when this happens because I just think "great, I'm freezing in the middle of nowhere with level 18 beasties near me ready to kill me and every single person is moving to the next spot and no one will be left to rez me when I die. And even if I ask for someone to come back and rez me, I'll probably freeze repeatedly and no one will want to deal with that."

Honestly can't stand that. Good thing I usually play with my friend who makes sure I can get through ok.

[Tridus]

This brought a possible temp solution in mind, though I still rather have a party lvl sync. What if they split instances by lvls temporarily due to so many ppl playing it, 72 players in instance and the option to join Elemental Level 1-10 or 10-20? Idk, just a thought. Likely too much recoding and adjustments though.

A 72 person sized instance would eliminate most of the technical issues. IIRC that's the largest sized PvP instance where everyone can be grouped up and it's not really a problem there. You'd probably still have too many DoTs, but the mobs and your party wouldn't vanish. That should be easily doable, because the zone cap should be a configuration variable if it was designed correctly. Frankly, I don't know why this wasn't done prior to launch.

Adding a 1-10 and 11-20 queues would be more work, but would also help low level people get into instances where they're not the only ones not high level. That's becoming a problem.

[Tridus]

FFXI had the kinda system that could handle large groups of people in a single zone (Besieged anyone?). If the PS2/PC era could handle it, why can't a PS4/PC era game like FFXIV (which has more enhanced graphics compared to FFXI) handle it? Very odd. -_-

It's not a client side issue (hence why it happens on systems of basically any hardware level, including ones that comically overpower the game like high end gaming PCs). It's a server side issue. The problem is that the way the netcode works, the server syncs to the client far, far too often, resulting in lots of traffic. That's also why we can't have bigger inventories and all those other limitations. They all stem from this one bad design choice to resync client state from the server constantly. That slows things down.

Now, pile on that communication in MMOs doesn't scale linearly. If there's 5 people fighting one mob, the server has to tell 5 clients what 4 other clients are doing (5x4 = 20). If there's 50, the server has to tell 50 clients what 49 clients are doing (50*49=2450), If there's 100, the server has to tell 100 clients what 99 other clients are doing (100*99=9900). Every time you add more clients, you dramaticallly increase load. Every MMO eventually has this problem. Even WoW servers topple over if you pile enough people into Stormwind, but the number is far, far larger than XIV's because their netcode doesn't do all that syncing and thus they have more headroom on capacity before it becomes a problem.

You can see from the math there that two groups of 50, despite being the same number of players, is less than half the load of one group of 100. Which is why the design of Eureka is a mistake. It deliberately encourages a situation that hits a known limitation of the netcode: the server's can't cope with 144 people fighting one mob. I mean, we know this from Ixion in Stormblood, S rank hunts from before that, and so on. It's not a new limitation. They knew about it, and they coded it this way anyway.

There's no defense for that. They put it out the door knowing full well it wouldn't work properly once everyone piled up, and that piling up is exactly what players are going to do because it's the only real effecient way to play.