Eureka unplayable at times

[Tridus]

FFXI had the kinda system that could handle large groups of people in a single zone (Besieged anyone?). If the PS2/PC era could handle it, why can't a PS4/PC era game like FFXIV (which has more enhanced graphics compared to FFXI) handle it? Very odd. -_-

It's not a client side issue (hence why it happens on systems of basically any hardware level, including ones that comically overpower the game like high end gaming PCs). It's a server side issue. The problem is that the way the netcode works, the server syncs to the client far, far too often, resulting in lots of traffic. That's also why we can't have bigger inventories and all those other limitations. They all stem from this one bad design choice to resync client state from the server constantly. That slows things down.

Now, pile on that communication in MMOs doesn't scale linearly. If there's 5 people fighting one mob, the server has to tell 5 clients what 4 other clients are doing (5x4 = 20). If there's 50, the server has to tell 50 clients what 49 clients are doing (50*49=2450), If there's 100, the server has to tell 100 clients what 99 other clients are doing (100*99=9900). Every time you add more clients, you dramaticallly increase load. Every MMO eventually has this problem. Even WoW servers topple over if you pile enough people into Stormwind, but the number is far, far larger than XIV's because their netcode doesn't do all that syncing and thus they have more headroom on capacity before it becomes a problem.

You can see from the math there that two groups of 50, despite being the same number of players, is less than half the load of one group of 100. Which is why the design of Eureka is a mistake. It deliberately encourages a situation that hits a known limitation of the netcode: the server's can't cope with 144 people fighting one mob. I mean, we know this from Ixion in Stormblood, S rank hunts from before that, and so on. It's not a new limitation. They knew about it, and they coded it this way anyway.

There's no defense for that. They put it out the door knowing full well it wouldn't work properly once everyone piled up, and that piling up is exactly what players are going to do because it's the only real effecient way to play.

[Lord_Zlatan]

It's not a client side issue (hence why it happens on systems of basically any hardware level, including ones that comically overpower the game like high end gaming PCs). It's a server side issue. The problem is that the way the netcode works, the server syncs to the client far, far too often, resulting in lots of traffic. That's also why we can't have bigger inventories and all those other limitations. They all stem from this one bad design choice to resync client state from the server constantly. That slows things down.

Now, pile on that communication in MMOs doesn't scale linearly. If there's 5 people fighting one mob, the server has to tell 5 clients what 4 other clients are doing (5x4 = 20). If there's 50, the server has to tell 50 clients what 49 clients are doing (50*49=2450), If there's 100, the server has to tell 100 clients what 99 other clients are doing (100*99=9900). Every time you add more clients, you dramaticallly increase load. Every MMO eventually has this problem. Even WoW servers topple over if you pile enough people into Stormwind, but the number is far, far larger than XIV's because their netcode doesn't do all that syncing and thus they have more headroom on capacity before it becomes a problem.

You can see from the math there that two groups of 50, despite being the same number of players, is less than half the load of one group of 100. Which is why the design of Eureka is a mistake. It deliberately encourages a situation that hits a known limitation of the netcode: the server's can't cope with 144 people fighting one mob. I mean, we know this from Ixion in Stormblood, S rank hunts from before that, and so on. It's not a new limitation. They knew about it, and they coded it this way anyway.

There's no defense for that. They put it out the door knowing full well it wouldn't work properly once everyone piled up, and that piling up is exactly what players are going to do because it's the only real effecient way to play.

I didnt know the math behind this, thank you for clearing that up for me. Ive also said in a few other threads that its an incomplete piece of content from a "things to do" perspective. but knowing this now... its even more inexcusable.

Also, ive foun the longer im in the instance, the less the lag/player culling happens

[Tridus]

I didnt know the math behind this, thank you for clearing that up for me. Ive also said in a few other threads that its an incomplete piece of content from a "things to do" perspective. but knowing this now... its even more inexcusable.

Also, ive foun the longer im in the instance, the less the lag/player culling happens

My understanding is that once you've been in a while, it may not send as many new people into that instance. So the player count may go down, and it doesn't take it going down by a lot to make a real difference. They could also be spreading out more after a while. It's hard to say.

But yes. This happens with Ixion all the time, even today. It's a known problem. That they designed Eureka to exacerbate it is just absurd.

[Remedi]

I can tell you even with a new team the problems won't be fixed, the problem is the system at the root not the ones coding atm. If you ask a change in the team without fixing the problem that is really the casue of all the limitations you won't ever see any change

[Mikki]

Not to mention the "DC lag" as I call it. Where often times, especially when the "train" is moving from one location to another, you will get a DC sign above your head and your game will lock up. Especially frustrating because in order to move around the map safely, you NEED to move as a group. Some people distract monsters and die, others rez them.. it works out well enough. But when you're lagging behind because of DC and 90k errors then it becomes really difficult to play the game.

I always get so annoyed when this happens because I just think "great, I'm freezing in the middle of nowhere with level 18 beasties near me ready to kill me and every single person is moving to the next spot and no one will be left to rez me when I die. And even if I ask for someone to come back and rez me, I'll probably freeze repeatedly and no one will want to deal with that."

Honestly can't stand that. Good thing I usually play with my friend who makes sure I can get through ok.

[RLofOBFL]

There are times I randomly dc instantly without a hint of lag. Once this happened at the end of Pazuzu so I got no credit.

There are even times where I LITERALLY got sent to another timeline. My friends would have long killed a fate but I would still be lag attacking it and from my perspective so was everyone else but in reality everyone was already long done with the fate and moved elsewhere. Once it persisted for over 5 minutes. It is a very weird experience. It has happened to me 5 times so far and in my almost 3 years playing, that has NEVER happened before. It's like I am desynched with the server or something.

On top of all that I get sick of bosses and party members vanishing and the abnormal lag.

Otherwise Eureka is pretty fun.

[Chevronone]

It all just makes me wonder if this dev team even cares about this game currently and just haven't found a nice gig to collect a paycheck from.

[Rosentretter]

There are times I randomly dc instantly without a hint of lag. Once this happened at the end of Pazuzu so I got no credit.

There are even times where I LITERALLY got sent to another timeline. My friends would have long killed a fate but I would still be lag attacking it and from my perspective so was everyone else but in reality everyone was already long done with the fate and moved elsewhere. Once it persisted for over 5 minutes. It is a very weird experience. It has happened to me 5 times so far and in my almost 3 years playing, that has NEVER happened before. It's like I am desynched with the server or something.

On top of all that I get sick of bosses and party members vanishing and the abnormal lag.

Otherwise Eureka is pretty fun.

This is exactly what happens to me. Sometimes I see the boss at 50% when in reality it's already dead. Eureka is fun but this situation sucks beyond limits.

[hynaku]

Being killed by invisible fate boss really sucks had 2 of them kill me today because of being invisible. Second one when went invisible it did a aoe attack no one could see then next thing saw was 90% of players at the fate was dead. To me eureka is very bad idea and needs fixed fast.

[TheGrimace]

I have a much easier time adapting on PS4 than on PC, if you must know. My near launch PS4 loads everything fine and I have yet to disconnect after a NM spawn, though there is still noticeable lag after the NM dies and rewards are slotted to the whole server who participated. I had to adjust my PC client to cull people though, due to the client freezing from strain.

Ultimately though, it's all a set of problems that clearly weren't planned for for some reason.