First impressions of Eureka (FFXI player)

[Remedi]

using wow, where if you don't have legendaries for your speck you are nothing as an example?
Also the talent system is criticized by ppl by not really having a choice.
AOE fight? bring AOE talents?
ST fight? guess what?
Cleave fight? Oh boy
your class sucks in this and/or you are not a rouge? Sit this one out

I could go on why that system is trash and inferior to the vanilla/tbc/wotlk system but let's not go in for long (and frankly even in those time most of the time you were playing a cookie cutter build)

Know what? let's just say this.
When I started wow I wanted to play a mage and decided to be a jack of all trades master of none one by taking talents from the 3 trees so I could be versatile to it, my idea was crushed stone cold when I learned exactly how I had to play because at end game you would simply not cut it.
Now I don't want to say that FFXI didn't had a system that worked, but the game was built with that in mind as Reynhart say and that's why in my opinion asking for it to be applued here won't work.
Ppl complain about the ilvl reward of eureka? Remember diadem 1.0? ppl complaine about it beign better than savage (now ofc ppl have forgot about it because why not?) remember the 280 weapon rng locked behind a non brainless grind? (the moaning was even louder).
As I stated ppl reap what you sow and most ppl feedback have literally no foresight. When they announced Eureka I knew it was going to be like this day one, because they literally said that, I was disappointed then and I was sure ppl would've complained, can't say I'm disappointed now because honestly I was expecting it.

[Stanelis]

using wow where if you don't have legendaries for your speck you are nothing as an example?
Also the talent system is criticized by ppl by not really having a choice.
AOE fight? bring AOE talents?
ST fight? guess what?
Cleave fight? Oh boy
your class sucks in this and/or you are not a rouge? Sit this one out

I'm not saying wow is perfect (actually the game suffers from the same issues as FFXIV since wow 3.0, when they homogenized all the classes, but there are still more variations there) but at least they try to do something. Legendaries were a good idea, it was the execution and how you obtained them that was terrible.

I could go on why that system is trash and inferior to the vanilla/tbc/wotlk system but let's not go in for long (and frankly even in those time most of the time you were playing a cookie cutter build)
(0)

That's mostly because even back in the day they were already only so many different situations in PVE situations. Wow was never as deep as FFXI in that regard.

Now I don't want to say that FFXI didn't had a system that worked, but the game was built with that in mind as Reynhart say and that's why in my opinion asking for it to be applued here won't work.

I'm not asking that they implement FFXI's battle system in FFXIV, just that they actually try to work on the battle system to improve it (btw they promised to do it during the fan festivals before stormblood, but they finally didn't deliver on that promise).

Ppl complain about the ilvl reward of eureka? Remember diadem 1.0? ppl complaine about it beign better than savage (now ofc ppl have forgot about it because why not?) remember the 280 weapon rng locked behind a non brainless grind? (the moaning was even louder).

The issue isn't only the ilvl, the issue is that SE told us there were going to be effects on the Eureka gear that would only work and Eurekka, and more generally people were expecting gear that had different skin than what they already have. Also, as I stated, the issue isn't the ilvl but rather the amount of grind required to obtain something of an inferior ilvl to what you actually can obtain elsewhere with a lesser amount of 'work'.

And it is only natural that players complained when in diadem 1.0 you could obtain better gear than what you could obtain with way more work, randomly and without any effort. There is a middle ground to find, something SE seems not to understand.

[Reynhart]

Video games are about entertainment, and getting the exact same skin with slightly better statistics isn't exciting nor entertaining.

Zenith, Atma, Animus, Novus, etc...were all reskinned of the basic relic, but at the end, you gained a very unique (and arguably beautiful) skin for your weapon. The first stages of Anima were also reskinned of the tome weapon, but then, it changed drastically...to end on something a little meh for me, but still unique.
There's no reason to assume the Eureka weapon will kee the same skin for the next stages.

Relics were a good example because they required a huge grind. But the reward was largely worth it and up to the required grind.

That's not a problem with the relic, it's a problem with tomestones and raids. Tomestone weapons shouldn't exist, they're far too powerful for how stupidly easy you can obtain them. As for raids, if you make the relic weapon more powerful, they'll just cry endlessly. My solution would be to remove raid weapons (and accesories) too. That way, if you want the truly best gear, you have to do every content and not only raiding.

Ask yourself a question : when did SE actually start designing something with innovative or with compelling mechanics (eg that isn't only more damage/healing/mitigation) when it comes to the battle system in FFXIV ? The answer is never.

I'd say 2.0. But the backlash on Titan was so hard that they toned down everything after that.

Additionally, as you have stated, added effects on gear would translate to DPS increase (or healing and mitigation), therefore it wouldn't be that hard to balance and/or to make sure nothing is mandatory. But yes it would actually make SE game designers work for a change.

They would only be mandatory if you want the absolute perfect character, for which the raid/relic weapons are already "mandatory". However, if Berserk was only changed to auto-crit and the auto-DH was put on the WAR new relic, every WAR would have gladly rushed to Eureka...

[Lord_Zlatan]

You'd think with the amount of time it took them to develop this ( on top of it's delay as well), it wouldn't need any work. One would think.......

thats kinda the main issue, isnt it?

There are 4 camps when it comes to stuff like this:

1. You like it as is
2. You like it but want changes to make it even better
3. You dont like it but would if there were changes made
4. You dont like it period.

IN the case of Eureka... I happen to like it. Its not something that I am going to do for 9hrs a day, but Ill chip away at it. I would however like to see things inside it that clearly should have been implemented (Hunt board, Daily/weekly, treasure maps, gathering/crafting, siege/defense)

[Justuas]

If I wanted to play FFXI I would go and play it.

THIS. ISN'T. FINAL. FANTASY XI!! FFXI ENDED 2 years ago! Let it go!

Nope. It's still running.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Please do not forget that FFXI items used to have unique effects, and the relics used to allow the use of special weapon skills. Thus the long grind in FFXI needed to obtain such item was rewarded. With the current system, the long grind isn't rewarded at all.

And the second part of your post is pure speculation of your part. In my opinion it will be like everything else in FFXIV : There ll still be ways to obtain gear of better ilvl (that isn't really usefull in the first place unless you're doing the so called raids of ffxiv) faster than doing Eureka.

Just imagine the tears if you got a new WS in FFXIV based on your relic (they totally should do this). and while they are at it, they need to ENSURE that the end stages of the relic weapon ARE the best (or slightly second best)

[Stanelis]

Zenith, Atma, Animus, Novus, etc...were all reskinned of the basic relic, but at the end, you gained a very unique (and arguably beautiful) skin for your weapon. The first stages of Anima were also reskinned of the tome weapon, but then, it changed drastically...to end on something a little meh for me, but still unique.
There's no reason to assume the Eureka weapon will kee the same skin for the next stages.

Sure the skin of the future gear may be different but it doesn't change the fact that you currently need to spend an insane amount of time grinding to obtain something that is no different than what you can obtain elsewhere and more easily. The old relics were criticized for that fact as well. And I'm not only talking about skins here but also about the entertainment factor of getting the new item. As it stand, it is simply dull and boring, and people are generally tired of that.

I'd say 2.0. But the backlash on Titan was so hard that they toned down everything after that.

I don't think you understood my post.

They would only be mandatory if you want the absolute perfect character, for which the raid/relic weapons are already "mandatory". However, if Berserk was only changed to auto-crit and the auto-DH was put on the WAR new relic, every WAR would have gladly rushed to Eureka...

And how would that be an issue ? As you said yourself " that way, if you want the truly best gear, you have to do every content and not only raiding." A new player would only have to prioritize and there could be ways to ensure anyone willing can obtain the items. Plus it is not your job nor mine to come up with potential effects on gear.

Just imagine the tears if you got a new WS in FFXIV based on your relic (they totally should do this). and while they are at it, they need to ENSURE that the end stages of the relic weapon ARE the best (or slightly second best)

I actually think there would be far less complaining, because that way you'd know you'd be grinding for a reason. It could also just change the skin of your spells/WS like the legendary weapons in GW2. Here again they don't even do that because SE doesn't seem to want putting a lot of money in FFXIV (it is far more profitable to design cosmetic items to sell in the cash shop).

As an example I grinded for the first relic back in ARR, because I believed the last step would have something special. That wasn't the case so I didn't grind in HW. Also, they don't need to make the weapon the "best" just to try to find a way to make these item exciting, the way they were in FFXI. Nobody complained about the gear in FFXI. Arguably how the gear was designed was probably one of the best success of FFXI, one SE didn't try to capitalize on.

[Mendalas]

Just had 3 NM's pop at the same time. The whole instance coordinated and took them down one at a time. Everybody was helping to raise people and we all seem to be one big team. It was a lot of fun and not to mention I got 30 lockboxes total and a level and a half.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Want me to use the actual meta as an example then? It is the same thing, when something is simply better even for a 0.1% the community will impose it to everyone.

Also nobody is asking such boring modifiers? Yes you are right ppl are asking modifiers without saying what it is so in my opinion what I wrote was fitting because all that ppl are doing is asking for something as abstract as possible

Ill use DRG as an example, and ill use a skill that already exists, but it makes the point.

Imagine you didnt have fang and claw. You get your 335 relic (Ryunohige), and you get the weaponskill "Fang and Claw" when equipped.

At 340, when you get Ryunohige +1 you get "Sharper Fang and Claw"

Ultimately, when you get it to the last stage, you would get Fang and Claw: Anemos. This would be exclusory, sure. But, it would also make the questing/grinding totally worth it, while also changing the way you do your rotation/etc.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Nobody complained about the gear in FFXI. Arguably how the gear was designed was probably one of the best success of FFXI, one SE didn't try to capitalize on.

Totally agree with you there. They need to actually hear/see this and implement it.