First impressions of Eureka (FFXI player)

[Stanelis]

Whatever the effect were, it made them a better weapon than everything else. This is basically the same in XIV, even if we have less metrics to use. Which, by the way, made the comment of Yoshi-P on why he doesn't want to give unique effect to item kinda off. If he fears some weapon will be considered mandatory because they're better, he'd better stop making them mathematically better already.

What you don't seem to understand is that it was their added effect that made them exciting (and it is not limited to relic weapons), not only because they were "mathematically better". It isn't exciting to farm 80 + hours to get a weapon that only increases your damage by like 100 (even though as I already said, you can already obtain better item elsewhere with far less efforts, and you ll be able to at any point in the lifetime of the expansion).

And please make no mistakes, if SE doesn't want to add effects to FFXIV's gear is only because it makes things more expensive to design. Here you only have to change a few numbers to pull off one item after another (but most long term players are tired of that).

[Aivi_lo]

My first impression is that xp is soooooo slow! It was really laggy, people and mobs were popping in and out and there was an NM apparently, but I never saw it (aoe ftw) Got some lockboxes eventually and won fireworks :/

[Reynhart]

What you don't seem to understand is that it was their added effect that made them exciting (and it is not limited to relic weapons), not only because they were "mathematically better".

Lots of relics only gave more DPS in the end. Sure, the relic WS looked cool but if it were crap, people would not have farmed them. The only real exceptions were Aegis and Gjallarhorn, that offered something no other items did. The real additionnal effect appeal came with the Mythics, that were much more unique.
So, yes, relics were sought because they were mathematically better in the end. Or for the pride...which already exists in FFXIV.

And please make no mistakes, if SE doesn't want to add effects to FFXIV's gear is only because it makes things more expensive to design.

The "official" reason that was stated numerous times is that they fear unique effects will be considered mandatory to have and people will be excluded if they don't have it. Unless you have some inside information, you're just assuming. Sure, the official reason is kinda weird but it wouldn't be the first time they don't realize the explanation makes no sense with the existing state of the game.

[DaffyRoth]

My only issue is the poor choice of item level. It’s not even comparable to i360 tome gear making it pointless until path 3.55

Ya that is the one thing I scratch my head at as well.
But whatever, I can't wait to get in there with some friends and kill stuff.

[ManuelBravo]

My only issue is the poor choice of item level. It’s not even comparable to i360 tome gear making it pointless until path 3.55

You do realize the hidden items that require a +2 weapon right? Seems no info is given until you have that and seems t obe one of those long grind projects. Reminds me of FFXI Relic, those crystals are like the currency used for relics in FFXI. Reminds me of Dynamis just with out the time extensions, job/magic procs.

[Stanelis]

Lots of relics only gave more DPS in the end. Sure, the relic WS looked cool but if it were crap, people would not have farmed them. The only real exceptions were Aegis and Gjallarhorn, that offered something no other items did. The real additionnal effect appeal came with the Mythics, that were much more unique.
So, yes, relics were sought because they were mathematically better in the end. Or for the pride...which already exists in FFXIV.

There is a difference between making something plain and making something exciting. Video games are about entertainment, and getting the exact same skin with slightly better statistics isn't exciting nor entertaining. There were a lot of exciting weapons (namely those which added extra attacks) or gear in FFXI (that wasn't limited to relics) that made players look forward gearing up. And they weren't necessarily obtained through long grinds or whatever.

Relics were a good example because they required a huge grind. But the reward was largely worth it and up to the required grind.

The "official" reason that was stated numerous times is that they fear unique effects will be considered mandatory to have and people will be excluded if they don't have it. Unless you have some inside information, you're just assuming. Sure, the official reason is kinda weird but it wouldn't be the first time they don't realize the explanation makes no sense with the existing state of the game.

Yeah right, I'm sorry but I have no reason to believe the "official" reason when it comes, in the end, to marketing. Ask yourself a question : when did SE actually start designing something with innovative or with compelling mechanics (eg that isn't only more damage/healing/mitigation) when it comes to the battle system in FFXIV ? The answer is never. The truth is SE is actually lazy when it comes to game design in FFXIV, and you can white knight/Sugarcoat it all you want, it doesn't change the facts. Additionally, as you have stated, added effects on gear would translate to DPS increase (or healing and mitigation), therefore it wouldn't be that hard to balance and/or to make sure nothing is mandatory. But yes it would actually make SE game designers work for a change.

And that reason doesn't even stand because SE stated several time that there would be effects on gear in eureka, that would be limited to Eureka. Except in the end there is nothing like it in Eureka. Again, things were downscaled compared to what was announced.

[Remedi]

Let's say ARR relic had a +100% dmg done on dragons modifier, what you think would've happened then?

[Stanelis]

Let's say ARR relic had a +100% dmg done on dragons modifier, what you think would've happened then?

Nobody is asking for such drastics modifiers (plus it would be a boring added effect).

[Remedi]

Want me to use the actual meta as an example then? It is the same thing, when something is simply better even for a 0.1% the community will impose it to everyone.

Also nobody is asking such boring modifiers? Yes you are right ppl are asking modifiers without saying what it is so in my opinion what I wrote was fitting because all that ppl are doing is asking for something as abstract as possible

[Stanelis]

Want me to use the actual meta as an example then? It is the same thing, when something is simply better even for a 0.1% the community will impose it to everyone.

Actually it is a game design issue in FFXIV that comes from the fact that there aren't a lot of different situations you can be in, and not a lot of customization on the player's side. In FFXI you had XP parties, BCNM parties, Dynamis parties, HNM parties, etc and in each situation the optimization of any given player and his gameplay did change drastically. You could have an item that was better used in XP parties but not that useful on HNM (as an example, the weapons that gave extra attacks).

Here in FFXIV you have the holy trinity and you're doing the same pre determined cycle SE wants you to do with the gear optimization SE wants you to have on bosses that are largely all the same (mechanics aside, that are mostly positional mechanics, hence not really tied to the battle system) and there are no variations.

But as stated you could actually design things in FFXIV so your core gameplay would change with an item without altering much your output, thus not making an item mandatory (that's what blizzard is doing with the talent system in wow, you have talents that change a class gameplay but doesn't alter its output much).