Dev blog: New Feast rewards

[VanilleFang]

I know I would never be able to hit the top 100 but that has nothing to do with me being a little ticked amount this. Only 100 people per server can get this mount (a mount I don't even want) which is ridiculous. There are, what? 66 servers? So that's only 6600 people who can get this mount, and that's not counting alt accounts.

Using XIVCensus we can see that there are about 550k "active" characters. I have no idea how true this is but for argument's sake let's use this number. 6600 mounts is only 1.2% of the total "Active" population, and after the season the mount is no longer obtainable. Ridiculous.

Side note: If we were to look at all characters total, 6600 is only 0.00534651405%

[HyoMinPark]

And I did mention a compromise in my response, but you seemed to ignore it.

When making suggestions/compromises, why don’t you refrain from making comments like the following:

Seems like you prefer lazy, zero effort grinding achievement by ignoring it.

Don't be surprised if PVP actually receives something for once, it makes you look salted.

You also sound entitled due to the fact that you want to make certain content easier. that is not how life works buddy.

And no I am not putting words into your mouth, you can easily determine intention of peoples words through context and what they suggest relative to what they are arguing against. Requires critical thinking champ.

Ya, you know you can so you want to make the requirements for mounts easier through grindy no effort achievements because you already know you are a great player huh? LOL

Maybe people will be more inclined to listen to you, “champ”. Please get off your high horse. Everything you’ve said about me is a baseless assumption because you can’t find anything to counter my suggestion outside of character attacks. You do know what happens when you ass-u-me, right? I took note of your suggestion, but it got lost in every single thing you said after it because you just couldn’t help yourself from attacking those who simply disagree with you. This isn’t even with regards to my comments, but every person who disagreed with you.



Make the suggestion, debate the pros and cons of any opposing suggestions, but don’t start throwing around ad hominem against the person you’re debating with because it just makes it look like you can’t argue the actual point of the debate, and feel the need to sling mud when you lack the logic to back up counterarguments.

I don’t need PvP mounts to feel like I’m a “great player”; I don’t need virtual mounts to feel like I’m better than other people. I don’t even see the point in such thinking anyways; it’s nothing but sheer arrogance to think you’re better than someone else just because you have a virtual dog or chair. Even if they released these mounts via “grindy achievements”, I probably still wouldn’t care enough to try and get them. I don’t care enough to even get the Frontlines mounts, and those are braindead easy to obtain. But again, it’s none of your business what kind of player I am; you don’t know me from Adam.

Like I said in my previous post, it was a mistake to think that a non-PvPer could actually have a conversation with a PvPer.

If you feel insulted by that fact maybe you should take a moment to reflect on that

If you feel the need to debate a person’s character instead of the argument they are making, also take some time to think about why that is as well.

[Sindele]

I mean, if they refrained from making snarky comments, there wouldn't be anything left except recycled debunked claims and the word 'entitlement' repeated for 40 pages.

[Rieze_Xeero]

Wolf collars are the very definition of low effort. You can win 10 games to get bronze and at that point you just wait.

Wait for more than a year to get 10 collars (or whatever the number of collar is needed), that is if you are still active and loyal to the game . Granted there are "A LOT" of great games coming out this year and beyond. SE should think about that as well.

Who is better for SE, a top 100 player who after he got tired he quit the game because "there's not much to do" or a casual player who waited for a year to get that 10 collars, and kept his subs intact. (another scenario but possible)

Don't get me wrong I don't want an "easy way" to get these said rewards. It should be hard and tedious but limited.

Well let us all just see what SE can do.

[Rieze_Xeero]

I mean, if they refrained from making snarky comments, there wouldn't be anything left except recycled debunked claims and the word 'entitlement' repeated for 40 pages.

Can I give you and HyoMinPark a medal. Cheers!

[Aviars]

Poorly.

Oh no, you destroyed my argument by saying the word poorly! WOW!

Please quote those people and highlight them specifically saying such because thus far, you have only made baseless assumptions or flat out put words in other people's mouths to justify your bias. I needs only look above for an example. Nowhere in Hyomin's post did she mention removing the ilvl sync from Ultimate nor did she ever once insinuate wanting things nerfed yet you assumed that stance just as you have in your replies with me. With all that said, I'll be crystal clear in how I believe the system ought to change.

Top 100 - 50 Wolf tokens
Top 500 - 25 Wolf tokens
Top 1,000 - 10 Wolf tokens

Each prize will always remain available for purchase but those who perform better will be able to purchase it faster. This removes the exclusivity of each mount without making them an easily obtainable reward.

People complain every single season offering their "solutions." You can even see variations of these solutions in this thread quite easily as hyomin wants them to be a easy grind achievement.

Also Hyomin made the claim that they would probably nerf Ultimate to make it easy for people. This falls in line with her achievement solution which really is a want.

Also no, top 100 rewards should only be available to top 100 players. why do you keep trying to make it easier to obtain?

I did not. I said they were ubiquitous as a reward for PvE. To simplify, the overwhelm majority of mounts are made available through some form of PvE content and none are exclusive.

You can read your own comments and see yourself saying that Hellhound should be part of a PVE oriented achievement be they were connected to PVE in the first place. You don't like how pvp has a mount that PVE somehow has a right to. Give it up

... I assume you mean PvE because the wording of this implies I was arguing for PvP mount exclusivity. If you proved me wrong in that context, well, you're actually agreeing with me. Soooo

I said PVE. and yes I did prove you wrong by outlining how Hellhounds and the new mount were thematically connected to the wolves dens. So no, I am not agreeing with you, and you are still wrong, champ
;]

Nor can I, champ. Feast requirements are timed exclusives whereas Ultimate isn't. The whole crux of this argument has been Feast shouldn't have exclusive rewards that can only be obtained during a season if no other content in the entire game has equivalently timed exclusives. To simplify even further...

Dreadwyrm weapons can be obtained from patch 4.1 onward.
Hellhound could only be obtained in 3.55

Can't make it any clearer.

I did suggest top 100 players have access to past top 100 rewards, by forfeiting the current seasons rewards, so the timed aspect would be gone

You will never convince me that increasing the threshold to 1000 would be fair, and you know it wouldn't be fair either.

It's quite simple, even you should understand. ;]

[Sindele]

So, let's invert the argument: top-end PVE players are okay with their rewards eventually filtering down to the general population's access months/years later.

Why do you feel - wait for it, wait for it - entitled to a unique brand of perpetual exclusivity?

Hard mode, if you please: no easy routes out of the discussion like 'because I earned it' or 'because that's what it is now'.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

While my position is not popular, and I truly do not understand the current state of FFXIV PvP. Though if one million players obtain the item through a different means outside getting top 100 that in no way detracts from the effort you put in to reach such a rank. No one can ever take that away from you as a pvper, I understand grinding for ranks I have done it in other games, and even in those games I truly do not understand what is the point of asking developers to waste man hours on an item that a tiny fraction of the player base will ever get to see.

Personally I think the reward looks silly, and have no desire obtaining it. People have even asked me the same thing in other games were I have rare and unique titles, items, and mounts if they made them more accessible I would be okay with it. Why do people place so much value on the item instead of placing the value on the activity itself and just view the item as a nice bonus. Even if some random person has the same mount and happens to assume you got it the easy way you yourself will know what lengths you went through to get said item and no one can take that away from you.

When I have took part in any activity I did it because I enjoyed the activity that is all, the goal was nice but the journey is what I will always remember for years to come. The enjoyment of the activity is what lead me to grind countless arena matches just for a certain placement on the leader boards the end of season rewards were just fluff. I will not assume to know you, I guess my question for you is do you pvp for the enjoyment or the reward. If it is the enjoyment why does it matter if one million other players have a means of getting the reward in a different way. That does not detract from your achievement, sure maybe if they are less unique some random person that sees the mount will not be like "oh that person really put in the time and effort to get that item" and as time goes on more and more players will assume the item / mount was obtained through the easier way. Does that really matter though, since you personally and those active within the community you are striving to excel in will know the truth so what does it matter if some random person thinks otherwise.

Now if it is for the reward, notoriety, and or accolades then yeah any change to the reward system will detract from that and I can understand why many would be frustrated by any change. I know many of my teammates in WoW and TOR played for this reason which to me does not make sense since at that point from my perspective enjoyment takes a back seat to the rewards and that is when a games state can start to wear thin on a person. That is something else though.
Maybe I am just out of touch with reality.

Why shouldn't be proud of their achievement and reward? Why should other people who don't put in the same effort enjoy the same reward? You seem to have a problem with that sentiment.

People should be proud of their achievements and to be frank no suggestion here truly detracts from that feeling of personal pride. Once again it simply boils down to why one does the activity. If one does the activity out enjoyment for the mode or trying to see how one fairs against other skilled players then having one million players with the same item does not detract from that experience since said person will always know the truth as to what it took to obtain those rewards. Now if you take part in the activity for the reward, notoriety, and or accolades then yeah any change made to the reward system that grants the items through a different means will detract from the value of item since that is the personal value you have placed on the item.

Only person that can detract from the value of an achievement is the one you obtained the achievement. If you the fact that one million players have the time cheapen your experience and the hours you put forth grinding then yeah so be I have nothing to say against that since at that point we have vastly differing positions. Though if a person is going to tell me that they pvp simply for the enjoyment of it I will ask again what does it matter if one million people have the reward since end of the day the person took part in the activity they enjoyed and happened to reach the goal they set for themselves. One million players having the same rewards does not detract from that in any form.

My position is a tad extreme, and comes from a place of emotion rather then logic I get that. Though if you are taking part in an activity simply for the reward nothing wrong with that, you are simply supporting the fact that said items are meant to act as a carrot provided by SE to get people to try a mode that many view as a failure. Which sort of sucks since that just means SE is right that people can be bribed to partake in a activity solely for the rewards instead of putting the effort to fix the content.

[Rieze_Xeero]

While my position is not popular, and I truly do not understand the current state of FFXIV PvP. Though if one million players obtain the item through a different means outside getting top 100 that in no way detracts from the effort you put in to reach such a rank.

No one can ever take that away from you as a pvper, I understand grinding for ranks I have done it in other games, and even in those games I truly do not understand what is the point of asking developers to waste man hours on an item that a tiny fraction of the player base will ever get to see.

I agree with you Awha, if you are at the top 100, you not only get the mount. You also get the rank title you achieved, and you will be forever be seen in the "The Feast Ranking Board" for that season. If you really like PVP and enjoy playing it. The rewards are just bonuses, it's the experience.

[Aviars]

When making suggestions/compromises, why don’t you refrain from making comments like the following

Maybe people will be more inclined to listen to you, “champ”. Please get off your high horse. Everything you’ve said about me is a baseless assumption because you can’t find anything to counter my suggestion outside of character attacks. You do know what happens when you ass-u-me, right? I took note of your suggestion, but it got lost in every single thing you said after it because you just couldn’t help yourself from attacking those who simply disagree with you. This isn’t even with regards to my comments, but every person who disagreed with you.

How are they baseless assumptions? Grindy achievments are lazy and effortless and you suggested it. Other comments you made and my response follow the same pattern. Like I said, it is not my fault that when I call your solution promoting effortless/casual grinding and you get insulted by it.

Make the suggestion, debate the pros and cons of any opposing suggestions, but don’t start throwing around ad hominem against the person you’re debating with because it just makes it look like you can’t argue the actual point of the debate, and feel the need to sling mud when you lack the logic to back up counterarguments.

You throw around the word ad hominem as though it furthers your point, there isn't much to debate with you around that. You took offense and started to turn the "debate" all around that fact. Maybe you shouldn't feel so insulted?

I don’t need PvP mounts to feel like I’m a “great player”; I don’t need virtual mounts to feel like I’m better than other people. I don’t even see the point in such thinking anyways; it’s nothing but sheer arrogance to think you’re better than someone else just because you have a virtual dog or chair. Even if they released these mounts via “grindy achievements”, I probably still wouldn’t care enough to try and get them. I don’t care enough to even get the Frontlines mounts, and those are braindead easy to obtain. But again, it’s none of your business what kind of player I am; you don’t know me from Adam.

Why shouldn't be proud of their achievement and reward? Why should other people who don't put in the same effort enjoy the same reward? You seem to have a problem with that sentiment.

Like I said in my previous post, it was a mistake to think that a non-PvPer could actually have a conversation with a PvPer.

If you feel the need to debate a person’s character instead of the argument they are making, also take some time to think about why that is as well.

You made it about character when you took offense at me calling your ideas casual friendly and zero effort. At that point, you didn't want to argue the point and centered your argument around claiming my posts were ad hominems and contained no content. Don't blame me when you were the one who took offense.