What is this new anti dps healer attitude?

[Seddrinth]

I don't really care either way since I only tank dungeons. If a healer is focused on dpsing then I just heal myself. If a healer is focused on healing me, then instead of focusing on self heals and cds, I can put out more dps. Makes no difference to me either way.

[KisaiTenshi]

It's impossible for a healer to win this arguement. Either we're DPS'ing too much or too little so i'm just sick of hearing it. ...

This is the argument that never ends.

You're either in the "more deeps" or you're in the "stop being bad" camp. Those that push for maximum dps at all times, are bad players, and they stress out other players in normal content by basically making the healer's job twice as hard. The "stop being bad" camp, are the ones that know how the game mechanics are supposed to work and get pissed off when "maximum deeps" players do so at the expense of other players instead of following the mechanics like the choreographed battles they are.

That's the problem. One mistake, and you've cost either camp at least 5 minutes.

Everyone else can play with their static, their FC, or even PUG and never hear a complaint because, everyone else does not want to spend several minutes arguing about how to properly play a certain job. Either you finish, or you don't, and if you wipe spend less time assigning blame. Some of you people are just itching for a fight because you like conflict.

Every 4-man dungeon in this game is arranged like this:

Start

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

First boss

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

Second boss

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

Trash mobs

Final boss

Except for the Trials/raids.


Knowing that there are a several groups of trash before each boss, means you should either be able to:

Gather one group and kill them quickly by everyone DPS'ing

or

Gather two groups, and having DPS burn them down, while Healing the damage to the tank.

What changed with StormBlood is that the developers changed the trash mob pattern so you get ambushed, thus the "drag two groups of mobs together" technique is a guaranteed wipe if you don't know where the ambush is.

Thus as a healer, you might burn more MP trying to recover from a tank that poorly timed their CD's (which guess what, are just long enough so you can't use them twice during trash mobs) , or as a tank, you might have to resort to self-healing if the healer is too busy DPS'ing.

The normal dungeons don't go any faster when you screw up. If someone stops and tries to have an argument about how to play the game in the dungeon, just ignore them and keep going if you're the tank. If you're the healer and someone is telling you to do more dps or to stop dps'ing, then personally, I'd suggest ignoring them, because they are demanding YOU adjust to their play style.

With the raids and trials, there is a specific choreography that works individually for them, and they do NOT go any faster regardless of how much DPS you do. They are dependent on simply not making unrecoverable mistakes. So it's better for the healer to save their MP for healing if it's going slowly, because burning that MP on DPS is not going to speed it up.

[VanilleFang]

Requiescat and Holy Sprit is a better use of PLD DPS and MP than Clemency. You don't heal jack compared to how good healer 1-button oGCDs are.

You don't pay my sub

It's mostly because I play WHM so much. I just like healing and blasting people with holy light is fun.

My PLD is only level 62 so I don't even have Holy Spirit yet!

[Shurrikhan]

Because when you get healer dpsing in the final trial of SB while people die, you can't really expect them to be appreciated. And then they're out of mana because of dpsing so we wipe. Thanks healers for your great work.

Could the extra healing really have saved them from being ledged for the third time inside of 2 minutes, though?

[HyoMinPark]

What changed with StormBlood is that the developers changed the trash mob pattern so you get ambushed, thus the "drag two groups of mobs together" technique is a guaranteed wipe if you don't know where the ambush is.

What are you talking about? All the Stormblood dungeons are highly predictable in their pulls after you do them once or twice. There are no wandering mobs that “ambush you” and “guarantee wipes” in SB dungeons. Even in the latest Expert dungeons the pulls are highly predictable. In Hell’s Lid, there is one mob that “patrols”, and the pack you can pull it with consists of Living Liquid: Dungeon Edition, and his pair of hands die in a few hits.

[Aniond]

Thats why I stopped healing. Its either. Healer you DPS Sucks, Or healer, Your not healing enough.

[KisaiTenshi]

What are you talking about?

Play with PUG's and you'll see. "Ambush" mobs are those that are not present before you reach that point, and The Sirensong Sea, Castrum Abania tend to be worse for it.

I'm not going to argue the semantics. The SB dungeons are explicitly designed to break bad HW habits, and discouraging dragging every mob right to the boss room is one of those.

[HyoMinPark]

Play with PUG's and you'll see. "Ambush" mobs are those that are not present before you reach that point, and The Sirensong Sea, Castrum Abania tend to be worse for it.

I'm not going to argue the semantics. The SB dungeons are explicitly designed to break bad HW habits, and discouraging dragging every mob right to the boss room is one of those.

I play with PUGs every time I do Expert Roulette or roulettes in general. When I was leveling my healers (all 3), I ran with PUGs. Same with my DPS that are at 70 except for a few that I only took into Alliance Roulette for quick and easy fun. I still don’t see these “ambushes that guarantee a wipe”, whether I am on healer or on DPS.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Play with PUG's and you'll see. "Ambush" mobs are those that are not present before you reach that point, and The Sirensong Sea, Castrum Abania tend to be worse for it.

I'm not going to argue the semantics. The SB dungeons are explicitly designed to break bad HW habits, and discouraging dragging every mob right to the boss room is one of those.

I play with pugs frequently. The only time mass pulls aren't done is if the tank or healer is undergeared. Having handled those pulls from both perspectives, I can say your assessment is simply wrong. Once you reach Expert dungeons, virtually every single one of them is wall to wall pulls.

With the raids and trials, there is a specific choreography that works individually for them, and they do NOT go any faster regardless of how much DPS you do. They are dependent on simply not making unrecoverable mistakes. So it's better for the healer to save their MP for healing if it's going slowly, because burning that MP on DPS is not going to speed it up.

I missed this earlier but... what? Apparently, you have never heard of speed kill groups or skipping mechanics. I'll give you an example. In Shinryu EX, if DPS is high, you won't see Aerial Blast, period. That's impossible to achieve without healer and tank DPS.

[thrashette]

I've skimmed through a lot of this thread, and I think there are two big misconceptions: no player is perfect, and not every healer you encounter will be a "healer main" with a significant amount of experience in all content.

I play healer a lot in non-savage content, and while I love support roles and would play a healer if I was expected to focus only on healing, that's not how it works in this game. I'm not going to queue into content and stand around 90% of the time, waiting for someone to take damage. Sadly, I'm capable of topping the DPS chart as a healer, even on bosses (I said sadly). That contribution matters. If the trash pulls take forever, the tank runs out of TP and cooldowns, the healer runs out of mana, DDs run out of resources. If both DPS are doing great, that's not a problem and I don't really need to be spamming Holy. But there are many new players or simply people who are underperforming for whatever reason. So you, no matter role you play, need to do your best to pick up the slack and help make the run as smooth as possible (and quick! Don't lie to yourself-- you don't want every dungeon to be a 30+ minute endeavor.)

Now, I find balancing between healing and damage to be very fun. I like to push myself. And I'm not perfect! It doesn't happen often, but sometimes I let the tank die. Yes, it happens, and guess what... non-DPSing healers are guilty of this, too. People make mistakes. I've been in groups with very aggressive healers who accidentally let the tank die. From my perspective, I forgive them. They're doing their best to use their entire kit and perform both aspects of their role, but they screwed up. Who hasn't made a mistake? Someone who refuses to cast a single heal and routinely "kills" people when they are a healer isn't going to make it very far or play that role very long. Think about it-- the quick queue isn't worth walking back over and over and over. Accept that a person has made a mistake, and move on. Don't chastise an entire group of people who like to use all of their abilities.

As far as the "mana" argument goes, I run out of mana when I'm having to do a lot of raising and big spot-healing from people making mechanical mistakes, when I'm overhealing a lot, and when I'm not "working with" or respecting my cohealer. Sure, maybe if you're not DPSing, you'll have more resources to use when things go really wrong. But in most content, things shouldn't go that wrong, and in content where things may go totally south, you've already lost to the enrage. There are no reasonable "emergency tactics" that a healer wouldn't have enough mana for if they simply had been DPSing prior to that emergency.