Scholar vs Astrologian Mitigation

[Vyriah]

It's not about not having enough stacks, it's about using them at the right time and keeping track of aether flow cooldown to make use of that passive. Indo being 30 sec may mean that you could use two of them at 30 sec interval inside the same aether flow cycle. It's much more investissement into a fight than learning the timing of spell that need to be cast between 10 and 20 seconds in advance. At worst, you missplace it once or twice before learning the proper timing.

[Aniond]

Personally. I love SCH. I didnt care for astrollgian

[CreinCrein]

Big shields + cards < free heals + moderately sized shields + dps + chain

[Valmaxian]

I've been exclusively AST/SCH lately, and from my experience I've noticed that the bigger Noct AST heals don't really make it "better." Even with CO Lucid Dreaming/Ewer/Lightspeed, I find that on SCH, with Enhanced Aetherflow, Energy Drain, free fairy heals, and great OCG heals I'm able to keep the party alive and do better personal DPS than I can on AST. Plus the Anima is better-looking, which OBVIOUSLY seals the win for SCH.

[Heilstos]

The Noc. Ast has one big Problem. His Kit does not work for his stance. If you look at his shild. He can only use them and thats the end of the day. (If you have Largesse that is the only Option you have)

CO or Time Dilation do not be helpful in Noc., because an increase in the duration of the shield has no benefit; for Hots of cause.(longer HoTs = more heal, but only helpful in some moments)

The scholar is a lot more skillful. Because the sch has options to transform his shields into healing or adjust for serious damage. (like a lot of you said with OGCD)

Than we can look at the cards:

The Bole -> The mitigation of this card is nice. But unfortunately, we do not have a 100% chance to have this card when we need it.

The Spear -> This card can maybe increase healing. But it is also not 100% guarantor for an improved healing and furthermore the AST would rather give this card a DPS.

Lady of Crowns -> This card is by chance and for that the effect is not strong enough. You sacrifice a card to get a 500 HP heal. Even under the aspect that this card is not wanted for the AST (or comes from Sleeve Draw), this card should heal better.

The Cards can help to have Mitigation, but only under the will from Mr. RNG.^^

So you have the Ascept that Diu. AST > Noc. Ast AND the Sch have the better Kit for Mitigation. And the strong OGCDs and the Eos/Selene from the SCH are big pluses. That's why I'm curious what the developers are doing. Maybe they'll increase the shield strength again (like at the start from SB) and think that everything is right again or they will adjust the content so that the noc. Astro healed it with difficulty and the scholar laughs into his fist.

The noc. Ast Kit feels like the last emergency nail of mitigation. And I also try to avoid the noc. stance. Luckily, that's fine until 07S.

[Kurando]

ASTs can normally shield for more (x1.3 the amount healed) but SCH shields more when it Crits (x2 the amount healed, which is already about x2 the normal amount healed).

I'm pretty sure that Succor was buffed in one of the recent patches to give it 150% shields for the amount restored? (The single target galv shield is still 200% though) Of course AST has the extra sect pot over SCH so it most cases it would come out little higher.

[Vyriah]

CO or Time Dilation do not be helpful in Noc., because an increase in the duration of the shield has no benefit; for Hots of cause.(longer HoTs = more heal, but only helpful in some moments)

You still have unconcious collective HoT, wich is the most potent of all AST HoTs. You can also extend shields duration for pre-pull to catch mechanics that happen just after the 30 seconds timer. It made O3S pre-pull signifcantly easier for AST for exemple, as catching spell-blades with deployement asked a very strict timing.
It's gimmickish, but SCH is the king of gimmicks, that's a the kind of things you shouldn't brush off as a healer.

The reason why SCH is preferred isn't about mitigation. SB made mitigation much more a team effort than a healer thing, so you just don't need better mitigation in a more organised team.
If WHM had chain stratagem, everyone would be playing NocAST.

[Maltothoris]

The reason why SCH is preferred isn't about mitigation. SB made mitigation much more a team effort than a healer thing, so you just don't need better mitigation in a more organised team.
If WHM had chain stratagem, everyone would be playing NocAST.

Scholar has variety. Remember there is still only one clear of UCOB of NoctAst/Whm on fflogs( granted there could be more that weren't upload) is because Sch has flexibility over the Ast. In terms of ogcd heals, Ast has earthly star and essential dignity and collective unconsciousness and while strong, it is very limited and they do have lengthy cds. Sch has lustrate, excog, indom, sacred soil to rotate themselves in a fight and all on shorter cd. There is also the fairy's powers with whispering dawn, fey covenant, and fey illumination. Rouse can be used to empower whispering dawn since dawn is a spell and can be buffed as such.

Deploy tactics is still the best burst mitigation (300 potency shield) compared to anything Ast has and Sch still does 10 percent more damage than Ast which can make up for the lack of buffs.

It isn't just the mitigation that the Sch has. It's the variety, flexibility and overall usefulness of their kit that makes them so strong.

[Vyriah]

The reason why SCH is preferred isn't about mitigation.

It isn't just the mitigation that the Sch has.

I'm not sure why I am being quoted that much, it's like every one is trying their best to find a contradiction that simply doesn't exist.

And because you're just trying to formulate a contradiction, you make your point bigger than it actually is by saying something like "I can do a rotation of 4 different eatherflow skills", something that you don't really do as a SCH. You talk about a 300 potency shield for deployement, but that spell really shine because it can apply sngle target healing buffs like nature's mine or convalesence into a raid wide shield, wich is why I called it a "strong team gimmick". It's good used as it is, but a simple aspected helios isn't that much behind, especially as you could buff it up with largess and can use it on demand (the exact kind of thing that make SCH that good). Yeah, 4.2 SCH buffs, exactly the moment Bahamut was released, made that less of a matter and I have been saying for month that SCH got overtuned.
Strangely enough, now that SCH have stronger safety net everyone love it for its complexity while in 4.0 everyone hated the same not less complex class because it was supposedly too broken.

But you're downplaying AST kit a lot in trying to prove that you're saying what I'm saying more than I am already saying (internet truly is a blessed place). Exco is cool, but essential dignity makes casting it pointless, as target will alway be at more than 50% hp after and will just serve to lower essential dignity potency if cast before, wich is a huge waste of ressources.
Essential dignity is fine by itself. Bene is also fine by itself, but have a much higher cooldown. Exco can be fine by itself but use secondary ressources. And this is what makes essential dignity good. You can apply the same to earthly star, or collective unconcious, or the stance base healing buff. This is AST's strengh, it's harder to use in more busy fight but it completly destroy O4S in a way SCH can't dream to do with any fight in the game.

The fact that there's few WHM/AST could also be because chain stratagem. And is most likely because chain stratagem, as DPS check is a matter in this fight and the longer the fight the more likely cchain stratagem will outweight cards because RNG (and balance nerf, wich also happened just before bahamut's release). So once again : if WHM had chain stratagem, everyone would be playing NocAST.

[Elamys]

I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make here Vyriah. Everyone agrees here that Scholar isn't solely about mitigation, which is why AST has some higher potency on its shields. N. Ast and SCH play very differently, so I feel doing a direct comparison is a bit of a disservice to both jobs. AST's oGCDs ARE stronger, but we have less of them. You seem to be very concerned by the fact that Scholar's oGCDs are gated with Aetherflow, and yet Aetherflow management is something I've probably never seen anyone complain about with Scholar.

If the Excog is wasted by an AST's Essential Dignity or a WHM's Tetra, or any other heal, that's not a problem with the design of Excog or ED, it's a problem with the communication and trust between the healers.

Indom balances out against Earthly Star's higher potency by the fact that it has a lot less requirements of usage than ES's placement, potency buildup, and lag from detonation to when it goes off. An Aetherflow stack is hardly a worry.

I'm just confused. What point are you trying to make here? I don't believe that if WHM had Chain Stratagem "everyone would be playing Noct AST" because Chain Stratagem is not the only good thing Scholar brings to the table. That seems to imply that every team would be WHM/Noct Ast.