The WOL and Mass Murder

[Drakkaelus]

No. Save that naive hand-wringing for a Superman comic.

No one has any reason to fear the Warrior of Light and it'd be silly to try to hamfist one in there at this point. This isn't really a story about shades of grey, the villains tend to be cartoonishly evil. I can't imagine why anyone would care.

[Krotoan]

No. Save that naive hand-wringing for a Superman comic.

No one has any reason to fear the Warrior of Light and it'd be silly to try to hamfist one in there at this point. This isn't really a story about shades of grey, the villains tend to be cartoonishly evil. I can't imagine why anyone would care.

Imagine we found a way to un-temper people. How many people whos loved ones we killed because they were "irredeemable" would be VERY mad at us?

We are this worlds equivalent of a WMD, and a figure of high influence at this point in the story. Everyone wants us in their thrall and, as in the real world, some would just want us out of the picture entirely if they cannot have us on their side.

I don't think this is an entirely impossible thread, and it'd be a change of pace not to be the paragon for a while.

[Musashidon]

I don't think this is an entirely impossible thread, and it'd be a change of pace not to be the paragon for a while.

nothing is impossible in the world of imagination!

but that doesn't mean we can't flush through the ideas and see if we could find a good way to do it without being some lame dc/marvel cop out.

like people keep bring up major powers going against us and the question is WHO? we literally know all the people in charge and their next top twos

uldah wouldn't side against us, nanamo is on our side so is raubhan and pipen then you have the merchant chairs who only care about money so killing us is a waste of time also we are great friends with godbert givings us points there

gridania is a peaceful country who is all about the elements and their own land that turning on us would be waaaaay out of their league plus also once again we have it big with the leader and moogles

limsa once again meryle can't think how to spell it properly already felt ashamed for abandoning us once that the chances of her turning on us is pretty slim also.

othard i mean come on you have 3 areas here ruby sea a neutral zone that hates the empire and only cares what people do to the point of hustling some money
then you have the steppe which we have it in (At least til the next leader bout) with the lead clan were they don't question us and last you have doma which we literally saved like twice now once with refugees and then with thier home town and we have hit big with hien and the next top two

kugane is a neutral zone that even the empire has to follow the rules where politics aren't allowed other than negotiations fighting prohibited

ishgard we are friends with big boy number one maybe not the council thingy they have but everything is decided through trial by combat which we win, dragons side with us as we shown we are strong enough to fight them and win (which earned respect) and ended nidhogs reign of terror giving both them and the ishgards a future with less death and war.

ala mhigo we freed them like the domans and our own friend is currently in charge of so once again they won't turn plus we fought hand in hand to get it back even freed a slave wolf pack turning them on the empire.

only place left i can think of is whiner shire and moar drama which is adventurer capital/goblin strong hold and rowena/ the orphans which we are all good friends with.

the idea of people just flat out fearing us for no reason people who have seen our sacrifices and struggles it just makes no sense.


someone did bring up Jeanne d'ark which did some much for their people then got burned at the stake but it wasn't all the people it was the church that caused it also.

[Krotoan]

but that doesn't mean we can't flush through the ideas and see if we could find a good way to do it without being some lame dc/marvel cop out.

like people keep bring up major powers going against us and the question is WHO? we literally know all the people in charge and their next top twos

Each leader has their own reason for liking us and considers us a friend and hero. However if the perception of us were changed , They'd would definitely turn against us to protect their cities. Say the seedseers received visions of us unbalancing nature or destroying the world around gridania. Lolorito also isn't our friend no matter how much he's helped us, and he's not only powerful but he's shown again and again if something benefits him greatly he doesn't care who loses out or even dies. Every bit of "help" we've gotten from him or his associates has been paid for in one way or another.

All it really takes to sway public opinion is one "credible" major figure pointing a finger at us. We're a hero sure, but the people in power we've been interacting with have been around far longer than we have. In actual game time I think less than a year has passed.

All that said, I don't think I know enough about the lore to write out something that would turn the world against us and leave us fighting our former allies, but I do think it would be interesting. I've always wondered how we match up against these other "heroes" we hang around.

It would be EXTREMELY difficult from a gameplay point of view though, would be we cut off from all formerly friendly NPC's until we could resolve the storyline? It would be weird to be fighting an epic battle against Limsa's forces but checking on your Maelstrom Squadron in between. I think if any sort of "we're the badguys now" line was implemented it would have to be a new area, as losing access to old areas , even temporarily , wouldn't be worth the story.

That's a very poor analogy - it's like saying if a cure for cancer was found and then demanding all the doctors of the world be charged with murder because "they didn't implement it until now!" Cures are not retroactive. Yes we lament that "if only that was available to us back then!", but we don't then blame them for "not having it then to save them!"

I find people to make unreasonable claims like that all the time. Hindsight is 2020 and people who are already being swayed to dislike us wouldn't need a whole lot to push them over the edge into hate.

And I really , REALLY don't want to get into a "mechanics of the fantasy world" argument when we have people being dissolved into life force and then reconstituted or turned into gods. Not that what you've said doesn't make sense, but writing in something about how the tempereds soul COULD be rescued through a call into the aether and blah blabbity bloop, untempered. It's not a matter of if current known mechanics allow in a fantasy setting, it's if it can be wormed in with new facts.

[SendohJin]

but writing in something about how the tempereds soul COULD be rescued through a call into the aether and blah blabbity bloop, untempered.

who is doing this research? the WoL isn't an aether scholar/scientist. who is going to build and fund this tempered Gitmo in the mean time while this research is happening?

like why are we individually responsible for everything in this society.

[Krotoan]

who is doing this research? the WoL isn't an aether scholar/scientist. who is going to build and fund this tempered Gitmo in the mean time while this research is happening?

like why are we individually responsible for everything in this society.

I dunno? I didn't say it had to be US? Just that something got invented. I'm pretty sure that in a world where tempering can happen that somebody would always been trying to think of a way to reverse it. Try not to get stuck on only that though, like I said I'm no writer nor a lorehound. Other reasons for public opinion turning could be found.

[Dualblade]

I dunno? I didn't say it had to be US? Just that something got invented. I'm pretty sure that in a world where tempering can happen that somebody would always been trying to think of a way to reverse it. Try not to get stuck on only that though, like I said I'm no writer nor a lorehound. Other reasons for public opinion turning could be found.

I haven't done every quest out there, still ave plenty of job quests to do. You know what I HAVE done? The Amal'jaa beast tribe quests. You know what one of those repeat quests was about? Testing possible cures for the tempered. The WoL is COMPELTELY willing to try and cure tempering, even if they themselves can't come up with a true cure.

If you want people to not get "stuck on it", you should also give other possible reasons for public opinion to change. Just prepare to be challenged on it and try to defend the various ways.

[Rokke]

The WoL is “feared” in the same way mooks are afraid of Batman- ie, the bad guys are afraid of the good guy. The average citizen sees us as a war hero that also rescue kittens out of trees, feeds orphans, helps people with menial chores, etc.

All it really takes to sway public opinion is one "credible" major figure pointing a finger at us. We're a hero sure, but the people in power we've been interacting with have been around far longer than we have.

I think we've long passed that point. Even if the original 3 cities + ala mhigo + doma would -for whatever reason- turn on us, we know that Ishgard and it's people would bend over backwards for the WoL. We'll never fully get a WoL vs. the world situation anymore.

[Enkidoh]

Imagine we found a way to un-temper people. How many people whos loved ones we killed because they were "irredeemable" would be VERY mad at us?

That's a very poor analogy - it's like saying if a cure for cancer was found and then demanding all the doctors of the world be charged with murder because "they didn't implement it until now!" Cures are not retroactive. Yes we lament that "if only that was available to us back then!", but we don't then blame them for "not having it then to save them!"

Also, tempering can't be cured because of how it works, from what I understand it works by the Primal actually overwriting a mortal's own aether with the Primal's, effectively they're replacing the mortal's soul with part of the Primal's soul. So, in a way, a tempered is sadly, already dead, their body is still alive, but their mind, their soul, their will is gone, replaced with a Primal's will. So, it's terrible, but executing a tempered is the only means available.

Sastasha HM showed clearly what happens when a tempered is over-tempered, they start to mutate into forms resembling that Primal and become literal monsters. Tempering isn't just brainwashing, it's a horrifying act that erases a person's free will and effectively their soul and replaces it with that of a Primal.

So sadly between keeping a tempered alive (who has no hope of returning to the person they once were) and thus empowering the Primal who tempered them and the result of causing more suffering, or ending that tempered's life and denying the Primal of power in order to save countless lives, executing tempered is the least abhorrent choice.