The WOL and Mass Murder

[JunseiKei]

IJS, that's why many soldiers are given drugs to help deal with the acts they have done. Suffer from PTSD. I've had a good chunk of my family serve, both willing and not (and we're Americans, a draft did occur, least you forget and not everyone has passed away that personally remember it). Taking life is murder, regardless of how others may justify it. They still commit murder, though it has been bestowed upon them by the government to be pardoned for their acts (justifiable homicide).

If you throw a rock in the air in an empty field and it happens to fall and hit someone on the head you didnt even know was there and killed them. Does that really make you a murderer?

That is called manslaughter. Murder is done with intent, so no.

Either or, what I'm getting at is the WoL does commit murder, but does it for "the greater good," giving them a pardon from those around them.
Flip the reasoning over: if you've read the lore book, you understand what the Garleans have suffered through (centuries of raiding from the "lesser" races). We call them murderers, but they are just as justified. Why are we pardoned and not they? Mainly because we fight on the [ultimately] victor's side and that is how the story is written. I'd like to think they'll eventually be redeemed because of those circumstances. We've given the beastmen redemption; I'd love to see the same extended to the Garleans. The Ascians are still the overarching nemesis.

[Gemina]

I have the same issues, also as a healer. It doesn't help that the MSQ generally doesn't acknowledge healers at all (except in the one case where it does), and you stand around like a doofus while people are dying instead of, you know, healing them.

It's a side effect of the gameplay being so focused on killing things. The narrative goes the same way, and characters NOT focused on doing that don't fit that well.

I know in my head (and RP), my character sticks around after those large battles to take care of all the wounded on the battlefield, from both sides. It's exhausting, depressing work, especially as all the killers leave the scene to leave her (and the other healers) to it. The game rarely tends to play that up and never really expects the WoL to do it, but I tend to feel it's exactly what a healer WoL would do. If the war is inevitable, save what lives you can.

You hit the nail dead center. I'd imagine many career healers share the same difficulty and frustration we do and have to develop an intricate background for their WoLs in order to accept that their healer is a killer.

Maybe in 5.0, healers will get a little more spotlight, but can understand it can be difficult to implement them into MSQ cutscenes as the WoL.

[Caitlinzulu]

Assuming that FFXIV runs that far, is it really murder in war? It's not like the WoL is going out and seeking things to kill (in MSQ, that is). I highly doubt that the WoL is going to end up like the Warriors of Darkness. And it isn't as if story-wise, the WoL cares about politics. Why should we be held accountable when it's the Eorzean Alliance and various factions throughout that pointed us, the gun, at particular enemies and shot it?

Exactly the argument the nazi soldiers used when when ordered to commit atrocities. So even if you are ordered and you are a gun being pointed you still have your concience and the obligation to do whats right

[JunseiKei]

Exactly the argument the nazi soldiers used when when ordered to commit atrocities. So even if you are ordered and you are a gun being pointed you still have your concience and the obligation to do whats right

Not really replying directly to you, but rather the thread of conversation going here:

We're not the Alliance's gun. We work for the Scions. Just the Scions. We're helping Lyse in Stormblood as a favor, not to mention we had Shinryu and Omega Weapon to deal with. It's been stated time and again that the Scions are not part of the Alliance and will go wherever there is a primal threat foremost. As an adventurer, we are still drawn to conflicts and want to help our fellow man (see opening the Skalla dungeon). However, it does benefit us to help the Alliance, but they cannot command us (that's why they ask for help rather than demand it).

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Part of the beauty of the story is that there is an underlying sense of grey to it all.

You are the Warrior of Light. A hero. But just an adventurer still.
You save lives, you take lives. And you're always at risk of losing your own.
Edda was the harsh lesson that you not only can't save everyone, your influence might cost others.
The Warriors of Darkness are the extreme case of what could happen if you play your part TOO well.
The Allagans are an example of what could happen if any one nation became too big (rememember, what they did, the Garleans want to do).

All that aside, while I don't intend to discourage the conversation here, I do think it's being pretty well overthought.

[Delily]

Something that's been irking me for a long time is the sheer number of people we've killed as the warrior of light? We are people with inhumane power, the echo allows us to overcome any obstacle and so far the limit the top of the food chain. Should a stronger existence, Zenos for example, present itself before us, we simply surpass it. But what happens when the wartime comes to an end?When will the eyes of the people turn from admiration to fear? We have a veritable ocean of blood on our hands. I'd love to see more exposition on this, i want the WOL to be held accountable for his actions, i wan't our allies and friends have at least an arc where our ridiculous power level is a matter of concern rather than a fix-all-do-all solution

How do you guys feel about this? Do you think we should be reprimanded or should we keep getting a free pass for "justice" ? I realize we can't truly ever be held accountable, locked away, and so on as its an mmorpg in the end but at least a nod, or an arc encompassing it to some degree would be nice.

Held accountable by who? The people of Eorzea? We've saved them from primals and the Garlean Empire. The people of Ishgard? We stopped their war with the dragons, exposed a corrupt government, and helped them rebuild. The people of Doma? Of Ala Mhigo? The people we liberated? The Garlean Empire? They are the aggressor here. We've killed a lot of people, sure, but we've also done a lot of good. We're not the only adventurers out there doing this. Combat and death are a part of the game's environment. Stop trying to take on some form of morality that makes no sense.

[Delily]

You hit the nail dead center. I'd imagine many career healers share the same difficulty and frustration we do and have to develop an intricate background for their WoLs in order to accept that their healer is a killer.

Maybe in 5.0, healers will get a little more spotlight, but can understand it can be difficult to implement them into MSQ cutscenes as the WoL.

You're a level 60 white mage. Did you pay attention at ALL to the quest lines?

[Beckett]

The WoL works for Eorzea and its alliances. We're even part of a military of our choice.

Which is kind of weird, when you think about it. Your army puts out the call to war and you're just like, "Nah, I'ma do my own thing. It might even be completely counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish!"

And you could make the argument that WoL has enough cred to be autonomous and make their own decisions, unbound by the chain of command, but if that's the case then why am I still a freaking Lieutenant?! I should be a Lt. General or Vice Admiral or Executive in Charge of Primal Disposal!

[JunseiKei]

Which is kind of weird, when you think about it. Your army puts out the call to war and you're just like, "Nah, I'ma do my own thing. It might even be completely counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish!"

And you could make the argument that WoL has enough cred to be autonomous and make their own decisions, unbound by the chain of command, but if that's the case then why am I still a freaking Lieutenant?! I should be a Lt. General or Vice Admiral or Executive in Charge of Primal Disposal!

That's where story and game mechanics collide and buttheads. We joined the GC when we first discovered to have the echo, but we were otherwise a normal adventurer. We weren't the WoL, at least known, from the start. I don't consider most of the stuff like this to be very foremost in the story, but it is nice to be addressed by your rank by other members (Hullbreaker HM) as nice flavor text. The only reason I think GCs were included to begin with is because SE designed it to be mandatory (unsure if GCs played a major part in 1.0 and this is yet another remnant of that version).

[Lokier]

Rolled a 98, lost to a 99. I don't blame the WoL for being a murderer.