Growing tired of this Stigma

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The problem with the current META is that it has BEEN the META for over 3 years now. I think its about time DRG, NIN, and BRD/MCH lost their time in the spotlight, no?

At least with the healers and tanks, they have somewhat rotated which was the better set.

I just hope we don't see the META crowd complaining about SAM having higher DPS after its buffed.

"It has no utility and the damage isn't high enough so we don't need it." Will inevitably turn into "SAM is too strong now, my utility isn't good enough, thanks SE, why you do this."

And then to those people I will say, "But I thought META only mattered at the top 5%, and that any job is viable and you should just play what you like."

[AkashiXI]

The problem with the current META is that it has BEEN the META for over 3 years now. I think its about time DRG, NIN, and BRD/MCH lost their time in the spotlight, no?

What do you want them to do with MCH and BRD? They’re utility based jobs with decent damage (comparing to the top DPS jobs), of course they’re going to be coveted by the large majority. In 4.0 we saw a lot of utility given to all jobs, which evened out the playing field. Dragoon got even better utility, Monk has Brotherhood, Red Mage has Embolden, etc etc. The main problem is the non-meta jobs don’t bring enough for the group, and thus get excluded.

So no, I don’t think Bard and Machinist need to change in anyway, however it’d be nice to see other jobs become more interchangeable.

[Kakiko]

Maybe it's because I haven't dipped my toe in the current Savage stuff yet, and have really only done Byakko Ex along with Sigma normal from this patch, but I've never been asked to leave or removed from any party I've been in because I was a BLM. I can say with confidence that for the majority of the time, I'm usually within the top 2 spots on my parser, and incidentally enough I'm usually fighting for top with my SAM friend. I don't know if that says something about the PUGs we've been in or about us, so take from that what you will. BLMs, at least from my knowledge, are seen near the top on FFLogs, so if someone is finding they're consistently being removed from groups or asked to leave, perhaps the problem isn't always with their class but their skill?

Again, I'm no where near perfect as a BLM and I find I take longer to learn fights than other classes because of the MANY limitations of my class, and I've not seriously looked for a static or really delved much into Savage this tier, so maybe that's limiting my scope of understanding here.

[Joe777]

So nobody is saying the real reason now? Guess I'll have to do it.

In a public setting most Samurai mains are a weeb stick wielding hindrance. Sure SAM CAN deal insane amounts of damage but how many actual SAM players can tap into it? Not many, and those that can are picked up by statics and don't need to go into PF. Which leaves us with the wannabe DPS player that thinks he's hot (cuz SAM) and will die over and over and over to optimize uptime while being caught up by a WAR or PLD that know what they're doing. SAM just attracted this type of bad player and the whole class suffers for it.

If you talk about utility out of a group that wants to get Savage down, you are a fool. Most PF players forget their utility even exists, let alone know when to use it and others, when to expect it to cash in on it. I seen NIN use TA when nobody had burst, RDM wasting Embolden and other atrocities. Sadly those aren't an exception but the norm. The only thing that happens somewhat reliably, is the tank getting Shadewalker on pull. Rest of the fight, you never see it.

tl;dr : Average players are bad and makes a class hard to perform on look bad.

That's not a real reason, let alone the real reason because that can apply to any job, even the ones the meta find mandatory.

[Bernkastelx]

What do you want them to do with MCH and BRD? They’re utility based jobs with decent damage (comparing to the top DPS jobs), of course they’re going to be coveted by the large majority. In 4.0 we saw a lot of utility given to all jobs, which evened out the playing field. Dragoon got even better utility, Monk has Brotherhood, Red Mage has Embolden, etc etc. The main problem is the non-meta jobs don’t bring enough for the group, and thus get excluded.

So no, I don’t think Bard and Machinist need to change in anyway, however it’d be nice to see other jobs become more interchangeable.

Just saying 4.0 furthered the obvious meta and made it stronger in no way you can sit there and say it evened the playing field at best it just exposed the balancing issues this game has had near the beginning. At stormblood's release smn/mch/mnk were in such a questionable spot makes you think about what their team even tests before releasing it. It shouldn't have taken around 5 months to finally fix some of the blatantly obvious issues mnk had and around 3 months to fix mch.

[Avenger]

Well, if the devs (as they have described) test each job to make sure it's capable of clearing the hardest fights, and if they even provide stone/sea/sky to help you make sure that your skill rotation is good enough to pass the (sometimes irritating) DPS checks, then it would seem that the problem you describe doesn't derive from the jobs themselves, but rather from the party organizers.

If you want to play with players who are intent on finding or using the "optimal" party composition, then you might have to play multiple jobs because that composition will change from battle to battle and from patch to patch. Although I don't share that obsession, I do kind of like the idea of putting together a party where the skills synergize with each other.

Personally I kept playing BLM even when it was "underpowered" in certain patches, simply because... I have fun playing BLM!! I have also noticed that properly executing mechanics is usually the most important thing, because your DPS drops to zero when you're dead.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

If you want to play with players who are intent on finding or using the "optimal" party composition, then you might have to play multiple jobs because that composition will change from battle to battle and from patch to patch. Although I don't share that obsession, I do kind of like the idea of putting together a party where the skills synergize with each other.

The problem is that it really doesn't change from fight to fight or patch to patch. Bard has been meta since 2.0. NIN since it was added, same with MCH.

[MoroMurasaki]

The problem is that it really doesn't change from fight to fight or patch to patch. Bard has been meta since 2.0. NIN since it was added, same with MCH.

I'm sorry... did you just say MCH has been meta since it was added? I'm confused because that's what I read except I know that isn't true. I'm not being sassy or mean I am legitimately asking since maybe you meant something else.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm sorry... did you just say MCH has been meta since it was added? I'm confused because that's what I read except I know that isn't true. I'm not being sassy or mean I am legitimately asking since maybe you meant something else.

AFAIK it has been. There were many saying NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH was meta throughout 3.0 and into 4.0

May have been later in 3.0 though. I stopped raiding during Gordias and didn't pick it back up until creator.

[HyoMinPark]

AFAIK it has been. There were many saying NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH was meta throughout 3.0 and into 4.0

May have been later in 3.0 though. I stopped raiding during Gordias and didn't pick it back up until creator.

Gordias and Midas depended on your comp, if you took BRD or MCH. If your comp was mostly physical, you took a MCH because Hypercharge buffed the physical jobs (and Hypercharging Rook Turret was better over Bishop, iirc). If you had casters (because BLM wasn't terrible for Gordias, and was still relatively good during Midas), you took BRD because Foe's was magical damage only.

BRD/MCH formed a truce in Creator, and that's when NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH became the DPS meta. NIN has been meta since its inception, and BRD/MCH were both buffed by DRG's Disembowel, and brought utility to the party, so they kicked out the casters then. So a little over a year ago, the DPS meta became what it is. It definitely wasn't meta through all of Heavensward because both BRD and MCH had lots of issues when 3.0 launched; BRD didn't become completely viable until 3.2 when they buffed it and fixed some of its issues, and MCH was worse off than BRD when 3.0 launched; I think it was fixed in 3.1.

Only job that was worse than MCH at 3.0 launch was AST. I remember one of my friends said people would straight up leave parties if there was an AST in it; that's how bad off they were.