Growing tired of this Stigma

[Rita1989]

it's not irrelevant because the content that those 5% of the community are doing is how the jobs are balanced and changed. The devs certainly don't balance jobs based on dungeons and story trials, they're balanced on savage/extreme content. and if 95% of the community aren't aware of how the jobs are balanced, maybe this information is actually useful for people looking to get into savage/extreme.

Again content in the game is balanced so pretty much any party composition is able to clear extreme/savage content.

The only 2 groups that META is truly important to are world first and speed running outside that if your excluding someone who is good at their job simply because their job isn't "META" then they are just a elitist and it's best to just to ignore and move on.

In the end no matter what they do one job is going to be mathematically last or a certain party composition will be always be the best.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sam and BLM work so long as their damage is higher than alternative jobs. It just so happens that if you look at FFlogs 90th%+ parses on EVERY sigmascape savage party, BLM and SAM are the highest. So what's the problem?

Those are personal damage calculations. Dragoon has lower personal DPS but provides upwards over 600+ rDPS; more if you run both Bard and Machinist. The argument lies that utility buffs wind up contributing more overall damage than selfish jobs can produce. And this isn't even accounting for support utility like Refresh.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

Those are personal damage calculations. Dragoon has lower personal DPS but provides upwards over 600+ rDPS; more if you run both Bard and Machinist. The argument lies that utility buffs wind up contributing more overall damage than selfish jobs can produce. And this isn't even accounting for support utility like Refresh.

A samurai and a black mage should be more than 600 DPS above a dragoon. I did take rDPS into account hun. Summoner and monk are the only kinks in that logic. They both offer strong utility and damage output close to the 'Pure' damage dealers. But, what can we do about it. shrug.

I just play what I like and play it as optimally as I can. Works well for me. I never get kicked out of things.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A samurai and a black mage should be more than 600 DPS above a dragoon. I did take rDPS into account hun. Summoner and monk are the only kinks in that logic. They both offer strong utility and damage output close to the 'Pure' damage dealers. But, what can we do about it. shrug.

I just play what I like and play it as optimally as I can. Works well for me. I never get kicked out of things.

Evidently not, hun. Otherwise you wouldn't have cited FFlog top parses because it strictly lists personal DPS not rDPS.

http://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encount...r84bBjLdHx7Z/6
http://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encount...XxK6wP3CDW8G/7

Here's an actual example of rDPS. The highest ranked SAM only managed 106 DPS above a 99% Ninja. And notice the substantial discrepancy between the Bards? Had an equally skilled DRG been slotted into the second group over SAM, they would have done more rDPS. The whole reason SAM needs a buff is it doesn't contribute enough to offset what DRG or NIN bring. Black Mage, on the other hand, is much closer now, coincidentally after the devs finally buffed it.

Good for you? This isn't a debate about preferences or viability as everything can clear. You're trying to claim SAM brings enough DPS to offset DRG when that simply isn't true. If it were, DRG wouldn't be meta.

[TraeSnow]

Snip

Not trying to start something here. I could just be ignorant of this topic.

So if a SAM pulls 6k raid DPS, and a Ninja pulls 6k raid DPS. Shouldn't that be fair?

They both achieved the same DPS amount. They just had different ways of getting there.

SAM got there by using personal DPS.

NIN got there by adding the amount of damage they provided to the group to their personal.

To me, I feel like...why should SAM be the highest DPS in the game period. Personal DPS, yes. But I feel like asking for SAM to be higher than Jobs that have their personal DPS added to their utility DPS is just asking for SAM to be the best in dps - period.

Is it not balanced if they both achieve the same goal, but have different ways of getting there?

[AcaciaTyrannia]

My, how cynnical. I don't think Samurai attracts any more or less "bad players" than any other class. But i do think that if you're going to play BLM or SAM you have GOT to be on point with your parse. You're not like dragoon or red mage that can hide behind utility. You've GOT to produce results..

Otherwise.. you should consider playing something else. =/

[Gumbercules]

Think the issue is with SAM and BLM having to be wielded right by not just the player of said job, but the group. In a close nit, or static group, I would go so far as to say it is a overall damage lost to not have one or the other. that said most PUGs form up around the idea of worse case scenarios, and the truth is once a group starts to flounder around the chance the first to get axed is the SAM or BLM is pretty high.

This is partly from lemming mindsets around the meta, but even in a more intelligent manner could just be from a group seeking a few more utilities to add into survival. That said, design wise i still feel SAM and BLM is a solid design.....so this ones a toughie XD

Personally i am at best a half ass SAM :P But i tend to do stuff when i actually bother to do it with LS members or friends though so the actual "being removed" thing is something i really can't comment on though XD

[RLofOBFL]

Based on personal experience all of last tier number running, SAM & BLM seemed to have a disproportionately high amount of bad players. So did BRD but at least they had refresh.

A job utility adds around ~600 rdps so for Yoshis whole high damage thing to work, SAM & BLM need to be significantly higher than they are now. & MNK's rng schtick lets it outdps both of them, sometimes by broken amounts.

I don't understand why they won't fix unbalanced classes. Look what they did to SMN, it went from garbage to almost meta, even after nerfs.

[ElasmoFan]

"Q5: Do you have any plans to buff support abilities for jobs that didn’t receive any update in Patch 4.2, such as samurai and red mage?

A5: We have no plans to make any adjustment to red mage at this time. Since we buffed monk, players are asking for some type of buff for samurai, so we’re thinking of making adjustments that will push their DPS to match their job concept."

This was from the recent letter. Their meant to have higher dps then the other melee jobs so they're going to be adjusted to fix that. Don't expect anything grandiose or huge, just a small potency increase here and there to set them past monk in dps.

[AppleJinx]

Well they'd have to buff Samurai and Black Mage by a lot in order for them to become viable to bring to optimized kill runs but that also means they'll be broken in non savage and ex content