Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Why do threads often turn so toxic when PVP is mentioned? Do we truly need to attack the people themselves even if they have "unpopluar" opinions? Better use all this bait for fishing but not for discussion.

First, let me play around with your question a bit. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I AM trying to widen the view a bit:

Why do threads often turn so toxic when [housing] is mentioned?
Why do threads often turn so toxic when [parsing] is mentioned?
Why do threads often turn so toxic when [the Mentor system] is mentioned?

Please think on that at a later time.

Now then, it's no secret that PvP is arguably the least popular feature of this game. From the limited mindset of "this isn't a PvP game" or "PvP doesn't belong in a Final Fantasy game", to the near sense of pride people seem to have for openly hating PVP, in this game or any other. You have openly nasty comments like "I wish they'd stop wasting development resources on PvP," or "PvPers are so toxic, that's why they don't deserve chat!" fired off regularly, as if fact and not the opinions they are, and often celebrated all the same. You get Resident Sleeper emojis and angry "nobody cares! Get on to more important stuff!" comments during live letter broadcasts, and NOW, you have a mass influx of people into PvP who don't know what to do, don't care what to do, and expect if not demand they receive rewards proportional to those who do, or openly exploit it for said rewards. And couple that with SE's poor handling, perhaps-not-intended neglect, and the recent sweeping changes that dismissed and alienated what was otherwise a dedicated part of the playerbase in favor of a mass appeal to a more fairweather audience that it still failed to legitimately attract.

Simply put, at almost every given turn, PvPers have gotten little, told they deserve less, told what they enjoy is a "waste of development", shunned, ignored, ridiculed, entirely misunderstood, then those same people want whatever little PvPers can actually get because "it's not fair that they only get it". . . I won't for a moment justify anyone being nasty about it, but don't you think people might be just a little irate to be subject to that? Consider for a moment how it might feel if it was something you enjoy most in the game that garners such hate and disregard. How would you feel?

[ko_]

-SUPERMAXHUG-

I can't answer any of your questions but the last one cause placing what I like abotu the game and picturing it getting the hate pvp normally does from what I see.. I'd be sad. I also can see how raiders feel from reading old threads on the subject and how they feel nothing matters. I kindof have a different opinion but I do see where you and they are coming from. Other than that I have nothing to bring to the convo so my bad :c - that and I really wanted to give you a big hug. :c -

[DreadRabbit]

First, let me play around with your question a bit. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I AM trying to widen the view a bit:

This completely. Like yes, this is the unpopular opinions thread. It's expected that we're going to disagree with each other. But for the PvP topic there was a ton of "anti-PvP" out right hate being spewed, and then people were angry at you for...getting angry at you and your community getting called terrible people? And in some posts it turned into guilt tripping. Like what reaction were folks actually expecting when that stuff started coming out?

[Shihen]

You have openly nasty comments like "I wish they'd stop wasting development resources on PvP,"

Hi, that was me, I said that (waves). I feel like I should clarify a bit, since although I knew the comment would ruffle some feathers, it was not intended to come across as nasty. It was my understanding that the thread was for unpopular opinions, and everything expressed in it was just that: opinion. No one should feel like they're less for enjoying what they like, and I don't think anyone that enjoys the PvP in this game should feel marginalized because they do.

What I meant and mean by a waste of development resources is that the section of the game doesn't live up to what I think it could be. To me it feels like the system is in a constant struggle to fit what makes competing against another human fun into a combat system that does not support those things on a fundamental level. The server delay and long GCD serve scripted battles well, but feel very clunky against a human opponent that is acting on the fly in real time. When I PvP in FFXIV, it feels like everyone is playing ankle-deep in mud and with one hand behind their back.

This is why it bugs me when I see new PvP content that doesn't change the underlying system. Not because I don't believe PvP doesn't belong in a Final Fantasy game, but because I want to enjoy it too. When X is the reason I don't PvP, and they add a whole bunch of Y, it feels like either they don't understand the issue, don't care, or the issue doesn't bug other people as much as it does me.

However, what I suspect the truth is is that they probably do understand, do care, and realize it's an issue for some people. They just don't have the power to change it without spending massive amounts of time and money. It's how the combat system was designed, how the servers work, and they have to work with what they have.

And so, for me, it is a failed endeavor. For me, it would have been better if they used that time to make things that fit well with the system. I'm not saying my opinion and the truth are the same thing. I'm fully aware content patches that feel like a slap in the face to me are Christmas morning to others. Good, it's their game too. They shouldn't feel bad for enjoying something just because someone else doesn't.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Hi, that was me, I said that (waves).

I'm glad you took the time to elaborate, but it's a statement I've seen many times over the years, in several different contexts. You raise some very good points though.