Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

[ko_]

-SUPERMAXHUG-

I can't answer any of your questions but the last one cause placing what I like abotu the game and picturing it getting the hate pvp normally does from what I see.. I'd be sad. I also can see how raiders feel from reading old threads on the subject and how they feel nothing matters. I kindof have a different opinion but I do see where you and they are coming from. Other than that I have nothing to bring to the convo so my bad :c - that and I really wanted to give you a big hug. :c -

[kikix12]

Oh NOW suddenly people are competitive and like to compete in this game? Cause I seem to recall many, MANY arguments in which I was told "this isn't a competitive game".

Well, too bad. I never said there is no competition in this game, so using your past experiences with people that did is irrelevant to me. Going around and using their arguments (flawed at the core) doesn't make them any more correct than when they use them.

Yes, this game caters more to the casual players. No, it does not lack competitive content. There is no such thing as no competition when there is a PvP in the first place. Heck, there is no such thing when there is any sense of accomplishment and more than one person. If people can compete in single player games, saying that they can't in MMO with high-tier content (Savage, now Ultimate etc.) and PvP (directly fighting another player) is just ignorance at best. And if you know that, then I see no reason why you wouldn't hold on to that line of thinking even when ignorant people bombard you with the opposite.

Still, let's not play at idealism here: if you were offered a prize for reaching the top of a mountain, and your options were to climb or walk a trail, what would you do?

Sure, I would take the trail. But your metaphor is wrong.

I'm not talking about a rough side or a trail. I'm talking about the first people having only the rough side of the mountain, and the other people having a flatland cause once the peak was gotten the mountain was leveled to the ground. I AM the one that wants the mountain to stay there and be as harsh to the thousandth challenger as to the first. Not you. You want the mountain to disappear once it's conquered.

This is actually something PvPers held as a concern with a token system. If you're good enough to compete and win the prize that season, great! If you want to take your time and gather up tokens, then you can exchange them for either an old reward, or the new. But no double dipping.

Eh...You get one token. You can exchange it for one item. You pick the new one?! You don't get the old one. You get the old one?! You can't get the new one. The only thing that it makes easier is real-life time-management. If I don't have the time due to being really busy in real life during the season there is added a reward I want, I can compete for it in the time I am not as busy. But I can't get more rewards than the amount of times I win. How is that in any way unfair?! How is that not rewarding to those that compete consistently and consistently get to the top?! They get twice-thrice as many rewards as I do over the same amount of time. How is that not a motivation enough?!

People knew that the primal mounts will be easier to get if they wait for a new expansion. That there would be unsync function that'd make running em trivial. And yet, they would still farm for those mounts when the content was the hardest, just to get them faster. And we're talking here about not only getting stuff faster, but also getting more of it altogether. And suddenly the "competitive" and "loyal" PvP player base would have no motivation to compete?! Sorry, but if that's the case, then it's not competitiveness but vanity that makes them compete in the first place. And sorry, but I have zero interest in satiating someones vanity needs.

(...)if you busted your ass to hit top 100 in seasons 3 or 4 for it, then later SE just decides to make it a handout/achievement/token grind reward, how would you feel?

What achievement?! What token grind?! What handout?! You want the hell hound, you have to be 1-100 in a Feast season. The same as in the past, the same now. That's what I was always saying. Where did you see in my post, any of them, me saying anything remotely resembling change in how they should be made available?!

Now answer carefully, taking into account that SE decided to level cap Ultimate Coil "to preserve the difficulty of the encounter, as well as the rarity of the achievement rewarded for its completion." (And according to Yoshi P, it will stay that way throughout Stormblood). What would you say to those that cleared that? Sure, the reward isn't exclusive, but would you tell them you and everyone else deserve it just as much later at say, i400?

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about here. It is EXACTLY the argument I am making here. Ultimate is bragging rights and it will STAY that way, while not being EXCLUSIVE. Now, in a year, in ten years. To get that clear and that weapon, you will have to show the same amount of skill and communication as at any other time. But IF you do, you can get it. Regardless of when you manage to attempt it.

Once again, the Feast rewards still staying as Feast rewards is not the problem. I never, not once, not in any way, said that they should be made easier to obtain. I said they should be made POSSIBLE to obtain, by doing the same thing as was done originally. By winning X spot in the Feast.

[AriaFairchild]

I'm not talking about a rough side or a trail. I'm talking about the first people having only the rough side of the mountain, and the other people having a flatland cause once the peak was gotten the mountain was leveled to the ground. I AM the one that wants the mountain to stay there and be as harsh to the thousandth challenger as to the first. Not you. You want the mountain to disappear once it's conquered.

I don't know man. Should Clay Mathematics Institute hand out one million dollars for every guy sending them a correct proof of Poincare conjecture? I mean, the challenge (the statement of the conjecture itself, the mountain) is still there, it's not going anywhere as long as mankind exists. But bad Clay! They should have not made that reward exclusive, everyone should be able to tackle it even 100 years later and be rewarded for it!

Or am I using a bad example?

[REPROBEAN_CHILD]

The glamour dresser isn't that bad. In fact, it's an improvement from the old system. It's flawed by its limitations, but it's far from the "garbage" some people on this site called it. I used my alt to test it out and it went so well, I did the same for my main. You can keep a consistent look as you level up. Now I want to put more stuff in it; only things I know I will use. Making a set of outfits is fun, we just need more plates to do it with. Not to mention the people who are obsessed with organization will enjoy this.

The negative reception was partly why I used to avoid using it. It's not bad, give it a chance. It's already confirmed SE is working to improve it

[kikix12]

Or am I using a bad example?

You are. First, the million dollars can be earned in multitude of other ways. The bragging rights is the only exclusive reward from being the one to send them the proof. And that's something I never denied. Second, look at the actual competitions in the real world. There are Summer Olympics every four years. The winners get what?! Medals (fair game as I said) and money. They do the same thing, but at a different time, and they can try getting the achievements as often as the see fit till they succeed (and beyond). And yet, they will get the medal and the money. Sure, the amount of money varies from Olympics to Olympics (and country to country), but that's due to various real-life reasons that do not exist inside the game environment.

Look at e-sports. Those are far more universal. You WILL get money, the same amount, no matter what country you come from, if you win. You will get money whether you win at the first ever tournament or the hundredth down the line. And you can buy with that money whatever else the tournament could be giving you, like keyboards or mouses or computers (if they do). So they are not exclusive. They are susceptible to inflation and the budget of the tournament...but there is no inflation in non-gil parts of the game, nor is there a budget, as these tournaments per see are "free". Making a new kind of reward requires manpower which costs, but the cost of making one set of clothes, one minion or one mount is in comparison insignificant.

[Pomelo]

Garleans and PvP. The two most controversial topics on the FFXIV forum?

I like both.

Theodric root of all evil confirmed :P

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

kikix, that was a mess of a post. Like, all pretense and pleasantries aside, that was a complete mess, from completely misunderstanding what I said, to putting words in my mouth, to actually agreeing with and backing up some of my own statements.

We don't see eye to eye on our perception of exclusivity. And yet we do. We agree the reward ought to remain proportionate to the effort, but disagree that past rewards should not be obtainable later, even if via the same proportionate efforts. I referenced a lot of related aspects of this same debate, from various other conversations in the PvP forums, which may have led to the confusion in seeking to nitpick my rebuttal, so that's on me (though if you're willing to dig, it's all still there in the PvP forums to read). Beyond that, I can simply live with fighting for, and failing to win a given reward for a season. I understand that you would not like that. But that is, for now, just how it works.

And ko_. . . thank you. Takes a bit of hardening to bear with and enjoy PvP in FFXIV, for all the good and bad of it, but a little empathy goes a long way. I appreciate it.

[rjspencer4]

healers are nonsense in pvp and take away a lot of the fun, I don't even bother attacking them anymore, it's a complete waste of time.

[DreadRabbit]

First, let me play around with your question a bit. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I AM trying to widen the view a bit:

This completely. Like yes, this is the unpopular opinions thread. It's expected that we're going to disagree with each other. But for the PvP topic there was a ton of "anti-PvP" out right hate being spewed, and then people were angry at you for...getting angry at you and your community getting called terrible people? And in some posts it turned into guilt tripping. Like what reaction were folks actually expecting when that stuff started coming out?

[Jijifli]

healers are nonsense in pvp and take away a lot of the fun, I don't even bother attacking them anymore, it's a complete waste of time.

People who refuse to help kill healers in pvp are why I stopped doing pvp.