Summoner pet egi's are a disgrace to the job!

[AnimaAnimus]

snip.

Yep a lot of that matters, but what I was saying is that it's lore. Its literally written by the devs and they can change it however they want, when they want and if they are creative enough it will make sense.

Sitting here using lore as an excuse for a job that isn't just bad because you are comparing it to the same job in a different game, but is bad because it is poorly designed, executed and animated is a different level of white knighting.

They could easily make the job better in a myriad of ways that don't compare to past ff titles, but they simply wont because they have no reason to. Even if it will be known as the most meh version of that job in the franchise. The wonderful thing about lore is that its changeable. You can take something that was originally lackluster (like smn and frankly rdm, blm, brd and mcn too) and make it into something great with a little bit of creativity.

But nope, this fixation of the immutability of lore for its own sake is why devs cannot stretch their wings and why games like this can go from tragic (v1) to ok (arr) but never to omg that's great! with some tweaking

[chrismercenary]

I think if they changed the /bahamutsize text command to /primalsize they could add all of them as demis and make them look exactly like the primal instead of blue (not that I have a problem with him being blue)

[Adventica6]

I've seen a lot of these threads since 1.0 about egi's and it's what 8 years after the game released and you are still talking about it ? let it go.

[gumas]

you know... why cant we just use our minion as our summon look, there is lot of it.

[EllieShadeflare]

Yep a lot of that matters, but what I was saying is that it's lore. Its literally written by the devs and they can change it however they want, when they want and if they are creative enough it will make sense.

See, this is the attitude that leads to "Principal and the Pauper" levels of screwups. Instead of building on previous lore or adding to it, outright changing it and destroying it will cause all manner of screwups in the continuity and lore.

Sitting here using lore as an excuse for a job that isn't just bad because you are comparing it to the same job in a different game, but is bad because it is poorly designed, executed and animated is a different level of white knighting.

And yet there are plenty of players who defend this playstyle. At the same time though, there are those who complain. This point is entirely subjective.

They could easily make the job better in a myriad of ways that don't compare to past ff titles, but they simply wont because they have no reason to. Even if it will be known as the most meh version of that job in the franchise. The wonderful thing about lore is that its changeable. You can take something that was originally lackluster (like smn and frankly rdm, blm, brd and mcn too) and make it into something great with a little bit of creativity.

You haven't given ANY suggestions on how to do this beyond, "LORE DOESN'T MATTER WHO GIVES A CRAP DEVS WRITE WHATEVER AND WE SHOULDN'T CARE" like that's actual advice.

In addition, it takes some seriously good writing to outright retcon moves and abilities that we have used before. Not to mention, in the case of Summoner and the removal of Egis, they'd have to rewrite the Arcanist Quests from 1-30 and ALL of the Summoner Quests just to let them keep making sense. If you wanted to summon ACTUAL PRIMALS, then oops. All of 2.0-4.0's quests would have to be entirely rewritten with new context and new situations. Everything primal related would have to be purged.

But nope, this fixation of the immutability of lore for its own sake is why devs cannot stretch their wings and why games like this can go from tragic (v1) to ok (arr) but never to omg that's great! with some tweaking

It's not immutability, it's BASIC CONSIDERATION OF CONTINUITY. Getting rid of the Egis, FULL STOP, will be a terrible idea in the long run. Which is why I made my suggestion of making the Egis a stance dance mechanic, with their combat mechanics being based on Demi Bahamut.

You don't make lore changes based on gameplay changes, you do the opposite, especially if the game you're making is built in a specific setting. Unless, of course, you're rebooting a thing from the ground up, but this has a 90% chance of failing too.

1.0 failed because they focused so hard on the graphics and making FFXI-2, that they forgot to make a game, and forgot that the modern audience is different from the masochists willing to fight for 18 hours against a superboss.

[Karshan]

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Lore is important. You shouldn't change it without a good reason, there's hard work put in it. I agree with you on that.

BUT to me, gameplay limitation IS one of those good reasons. Lore should not be a prison to gameplay and be used as an excuse to not change something that affects everyone (how a class plays) for the sake of mental comfort of only some who care about lore.

Lore is constructed, it's not an absolute physics law, and I don't like the idea of a construct getting in the way of possibilities of gameplay that would renew / increase the interest for some classes.

In the case of SMN : People say lore allows you only summon egis as an essence and not the primals themselves because you are, as a warrior of light, an anti-primal machine.
But you can be written into a "fighting fire with fire" guy, that learns to harvest this power but to stop uncontrolable summonings by bloodthirsty tribes/people. Kinda like an Ultima Weap but with flesh and bones.

Plus as I said, I didn't ask to get rid of anything, rather have it like : you start with egis and they remain your core. With increase in levels, you become more powerful and come to summon demi primals. They kinda pushed the Bahamut thing (transe, demi, all quests turned towards the Wyrm) but there's also Alexander, Odin, etc... they could use.

Like a classic FF progression where you start with a basic Ifrit and end up with Ark / Bahamut ZERO / Ultima, etc...

What I want to say is : egis alone do NOT feel like final fantasy series summoner, so maybe they can add more demi primals to make it moreso, without getting rid of egis that are an identity of FFXIV summoners. Egis would still be the basics, and specific to FFXIV summoners to give them a unique feel, but would not REPLACE the old, general summoner feel as it has been the case until 4.0

[Rinuko]

Carbuncle tho!

[Neela]

...and give Titan something to do that ISN'T just tanking in solo content.

yeah farming byakko lately I was thinking about a Titan-Shield aoe or some kind of "mini-tank"–lb... it would make the Nugget at least useful for some healchecks or similar mechanics in endcontent. And it would make people switch egis-midfight depending on phases/mechanics... imo smn should lose even more dps for grp support skills like titan-shield, demi-phoenix reraise or demi-tba reflect, etc...

[AnimaAnimus]

snip.

I have no idea what post you are reading, I never mentioned anything about getting rid of egis. But apparently I really touched a nerve.

My statement was purely directed at all the comments defending smn and other various aspects with the use of lore. Because there is some belief that lore is unchangeable and keeping things exactly as they are is the only way things can exist. You are dissecting my post, adding to it things I never stated and misinterpreting what is actually there.

Lore doesn't matter in some instances because it is changeable. If the dev team wants to add something or take something away from the game they can, there are no rules like in the real world that tell them they cannot. With a little bit of creativity anything is changeable. This game in itself is an example of that or ARR would never have been able to be a thing because they used lore as a way to transition an entire busted game to an entirely new one through retcons, rewrites and flat out ignoring a lot. You think they cannot do that with a simple job?

It takes little to no writing to outright remove abilities we have used before, they do that every expansion and sometimes just in regular updates. Heck they even flat out change things all the time with no explanation, tri-bind and the transition from sub job skills to role specific skills comes immediately to mind. They even wrote into the lore that the image of the egi if nothing else could be changed so they could at the very least give them a graphical overhaul without breaking that precious lore.

And no I am not writing up any plans or suggestions because if we have learned anything its that the devs don't care. They do what they wanna do and I am not about to take time out of my day to create a job concept that they will not even look at.

I was not trying to start an argument but if you took any basic fiction course you would maybe understand.

[TraeSnow]

I've seen a lot of these threads since 1.0 about egi's and it's what 8 years after the game released and you are still talking about it ? let it go.

Uh...Summoner wasn't in 1.0, it was released at launch (Wasn't even in CBT) of 2.0, which released in 2013.

Also, it has nothing to do with "letting it go." SE said at the start of HW that instead of making new actual Summons they are making Egi Glamours so that we can make our Egis look like they are different summons, even when they are not. This has been delayed for 2 years. So at this point, it isn't really the player base being whiny. It's SE promising a feature and not delivering.