Tank dps harrasment

[Altena]

/shrug

I can see when I'm losing an argument. Very well...my own definition of what I see as a standard pull is obviously different. I can admit when I lose an argument. My point still remains on 'DPS pulling for the tank'.

I was also curious about the differing experiences so I asked Novice Network what they see a majority of the time when they queue for DR:Ex on anything except tank and their result was similar to mine. Not rubbing it in, just saying I wanted to find out if my experience was unique.

(On that note, I just noticed my signature just up and completely disappeared. Why?)

Sometimes when you edit your post quickly, the signature gets removed. It's a weird forum bug that's been around for ages.

[Fhaerron]

So, this thread was buried.

What was the reason for it to come back?

[KaivaC]

I was also curious about the differing experiences so I asked Novice Network what they see a majority of the time when they queue for DR:Ex on anything except tank and their result was similar to mine. Not rubbing it in, just saying I wanted to find out if my experience was unique.



Sometimes when you edit your post quickly, the signature gets removed. It's a weird forum bug that's been around for ages.

It hasn't shown up in a good chunk of my posts lately, even before I start making edits. It's weird...but nothing that I'm too worried about...needed to update my profile anyhow.

I don't think you're rubbing it in. I just have a losing argument, is all.

[Awha]

Tanks getting kicked for not doing enough damage..... In an Expert dungeon? I call bullsh~..

While not the reason I state when a I initiate the kick, if we are 15 minutes into the dungeon and things are going a tad slow for my taste be it due to pull size or a members dps being to low. I do not keep a record though I would say about half of the vote goes through, if not so be it. If the vote fails and I am bothered by the pace normally I will just leave.

I personally do not think I am the only impatient ass hat playing this game. So I am sure other players do get kicked for their play no matter the role.

[Shurrikhan]

I do not know what it looks like on Primal, but on Aether, I've seen more 2-3 mob pulls than I have with 'big' pulls. Depending on the dungeon, 3 mobs aren't really big pulls, and some places are very difficult to even get a massive pull on and survive consistently. Again, I will be patient with DPS pulling for me twice, maybe a third time if I'm feeling generous. But unless the healer consents, I will not pull anymore than I already do and if DPS continue to pull like this (by this point, I will have spoken up), then I will not take any aggro. They do it again, they're getting shirked. If they again pull ahead of me, I'm vote-kicking.

Aether resident here. I've yet to see an Expert Roulette without mass pulls where the tank wasn't quickly vote-kicked and replaced within a couple minutes while the DPS continued just as quickly tanking on their own in the meantime.

On the other hand, I've not once seen a DPS vote-kicked for early pulling, and rarely even a warning given if their resources depend on it and the mobs were drawn through the tank for ease of collection and Diversion was used if more than a couple GCDs were spent. That's on the tank at that point, generally by the tank's own admission.

[Estelle9lives]

DPS have no business pulling ahead of the tank..regardless of timers or chains or stacks...unless this is a party with a confidence in handling the situation as needed..not randoms.
Yes it sucks...but when you pull ahead of the tank and the tank is in mid-stride unable to compensate...and you wipe out..guess whose to blame....sure as hell not the tank. (And yes if they are pulling ahead they should know how to drag the aggro back to the tank - problem is..its a bit of a coin toss - again...communication - if the tank knows whats up - the tank can plan for it...you ambush the tank with an pull ahead - the party will likely suffer and worse..wipe out - I've seen this so many times it makes me cry a little on the inside >.<;;; )

Literally have never seen a wipe because of this in the 3+ years I've been playing this game. All it takes for a tank to rip aggro back if a DPS pulls is a single AOE enmity move, aggro gen in tank stance is bonkers in this game. And I'd also like to say, having leveled all 3 tanks to 70 I never had a DPS pull ahead of me. I'm inclined to say that if a DPS pulls ahead of you, you simply aren't keeping a good pace as a tank.

I have seen this happening very few times when I wasn't tanking, and even then there wasn't wipes (unless multiple mobs are attacking a DPS player, it will take ages to kill them) or diva tank behavior of "you pull you tank". The tank would simply do a single enmity move and get aggro back.
Again I'm here wondering if I'm playing the same game as the people on the OF, who so often get trolled and have horrible DF experiences with speedrunners and elitists.

[KaivaC]

Aether resident here. I've yet to see an Expert Roulette without mass pulls where the tank wasn't quickly vote-kicked and replaced within a couple minutes while the DPS continued just as quickly tanking on their own in the meantime.

Hence another issue that I have. If DPS themselves are kicking because a tank won't pull more, that's some BS. Now, if the healer is fine with it, if the tank doesn't want to do it simply because they don't want to...then that's a different matter. If they're uncomfortable with large pulls, they don't deserve to be vote-kicked because of a bunch of impatient players. How does that get anything done? If they just don't want to, like I said earlier, that's another matter - and even still, that's highly dependant on how comfortable the tank is, just as it's dependent on healers being comfortable with healing a large pull.

I have vote-kicked a DPS for doing early pulling excessively. But they were given fair warning multiple times and the healer was still learning their role. There's also the issue of a huge chunk (not majority) of DPS littering the DF who do not use any aggro-dumping skills.

[Awha]

Hence another issue that I have. If DPS themselves are kicking because a tank won't pull more, that's some BS. Now, if the healer is fine with it, if the tank doesn't want to do it simply because they don't want to...then that's a different matter. If they're uncomfortable with large pulls, they don't deserve to be vote-kicked because of a bunch of impatient players.

Thing is for vote to go through two out of the three players need to say yes. So clearly majority were not fine for it. Ones role does nor provide protection from the consensus formed by the group. Vote kick is just a quicker means to see if the group is in agreement.

[KaivaC]

snip.

Alright, let's go ahead and break this down. Who is in the wrong for this scenario: Ala Mhigo. Tank admits they're not fully geared and is running Ala Mhigo to pick up gear before they complete Shinryu normal. At the start, they say they are not comfortable with large pulls while in current gear. Healer says they're still getting used to healing and would prefer smaller pulls anyhow. Both DPS say nothing. Pace is generally a pull or two, DPS are rarely using AOE. One of the DPS asks for larger pulls, tank says not this time. 15 minutes in, they clear the second boss and while tank is waiting for healer to regenerate some MP, one of the DPS pulls the next mob leading up to the first laser gate. Tank takes aggro and asks that DPS not to pull ahead. DPS says "next time pull bigger or don't tank" and initiates a vote kick. The healer says no, the other DPS says yes.

Does that make it right or fair?

[Awha]

Snip . . .

What a player thinks is fair or right is subjective and honestly does not matter. All that matters is if the vote passed or not. Clearly the vote passed so at this time the healer has a choice to make leave or go on with the run with a new tank. Hell if the tank feels their kick was not justified they are free to report it and if they were right who knows maybe the GM will take action.

For vote kick to work their must be a consensus, if two people say yes and one person says no. The one in the minority has a choice to make stay with the group thus conforming to the consensus or leaving. Same could be said if the vote fails. Either conform or leave.