I miss the old PvP.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

First off, Acha, if you're going to attempt discussion, you better stow that holier-than-thou attitude quick. All that does is close people off to whatever point you're trying to make, and reflects poorly on you besides.

Now the, the claim that less skills means PvP is easier isn't quite true. Perhaps easier to someone just getting started and has no prior knowledge of anything, but there's a reason most pre-4.0 veterans dislike the new PvP: Depth. You don't trade depth for ease, then try to claim something is better for it. And you have the very mistaken impression that because things seem more team based now, it's better. It's not. You even admit that jobs aren't as balanced in 4.x, which those of us who played 3.x PvP are well aware of how much more balanced it was. Not perfect; it was never perfect, but a hell of a lot deeper, more balanced, and more fun. That is, IF you knew what you were doing.

You bring up solo carrying as a counter point, but realistically, you had to be REALLY good to pull that off, and I can't think of anyone who went in trying to do so. Sure, I carried a few myself, but that was simply taking advantage of momentum more often than not. I never attempted to carry anything because 1: I'm not that full of myself, and 2: I'm well aware of how unrealistic a 1v4 is. So, to try and claim that solo carrying was such a big, common thing is just incorrect. At the same time however, knowing when you had a weak link on the team and being able to fully utilize your kit to try and accommodate for said weak link was a necessary and learned skill. Having less to work with in that regard, skill-wise, is not a step up. It's a big step down.

Another point you make, which I've made a greater counter point to is that people don't understand how to cooperate with their team. Thing is, 9 buttons didn't fix that either. I've said many times in many threads that all attempts to make the Feast "foolproof" have so far failed, and only disappointed or driven experienced players away from it. People who didn't care to learn how to play then, likely still don't now, and if they somehow found a way to drop it all to 4 buttons, they still wouldn't, and THAT is the real issue. Yes, high level Feast does demand that teams cooperate and play at their best, but that's nothing new. If anything, it took MORE skill just to reach Gold rank back then, whereas now you can easily fumble your way into it, Top 100 or not. Hell just look at past seasons; Top 100 ranged from Diamond to Gold players, but now? With all the "foolproofing" and dumbing down of the systems of the Feast, it's all Diamond and some Platinum. Tell me how accurately that reflects player skill when everyone's at the top?

4.x doesn't encourage or reward team play, it forces reliance on your team, for better or worse, by limiting your kit and abilities to act/react to the situation at hand. For anyone who knew what to do and do it well then, it's hardly a hinderance - an annoyance at best - but don't think people who were good then aren't good now.

Your post is valid as it makes sense. I'm more directing these to these other people.
Also MCH is OP at the moment lol. That PvE rotation is basically all you need to do in PvP ATM to get the big dmgs off unless enemy Healer knows what Wildfire is and puts Protect/Beni/whatever unga shield up at the end of a countdown.

Let me address this as a career MCH:

First off, I didn't need to use Wildfire back then. Not only did I not need it, I sure as hell wasn't going to be performing any kind of PvE rotation with it.

Many times I used it as a feint; throw it on one guy to get his healer's attention there, then attack another target. Or I'd use it as an insurance during a burst. Watching it go off and take someone out when they think they got away or used Attunement was enjoyable.

Turning the freeform MCH shot combo into a linear one is awful. Like, it really is. Whereas once you could Reload>Slug Shot to proc a Clean Shot, now, you HAVE to perform the combo just to reach that shot. Having Stun Gun force an Overheat not only feels bad, it's taught newer MCHs to waste the only aoe stun in PvP as an Overheat button more often than not. Forcing your "burst" to be centered around Wildfire makes it brainless and obvious, where it wasn't before (and Wildfire wasn't even needed for said burst).

The rework of reloading isn't terrible, but common misunderstanding of it limits most MCH players. Feast or Frontlines, when I hear someone fully load their gun before battle, it just kills me inside knowing how they just gimped themselves for 3 shots. And by now I'm quite tired of trying to correct it.

With the exception of BTE, which requires a cc modifier for its max damage, MCH has no notable oGCD attacks, which can literally be felt in clutch moments.

MCH is strong, but it's hardly OP. And trying to force people to use PvE rotations in PvP definitely wasn't an improvement. Certainly not for MCH.

[AchaNoYumi]

First off, Acha, if you're going to attempt discussion, you better stow that holier-than-thou attitude quick.

Lol @ this statement. How are you deriving a Holier-than-thou attitude when people are literally insulting my friend starting off for making the same argument that you all are agreeing with magically now? So these people that are insulting my friend aren't holier-than-thou because they are agreeing with you? Seems pretty one-sided and petty if you ask me.

Literally everything that you think you're "arguing against me with" is actually the complete opposite. If you took a moment to read my post, you'd realize that you're in fact agreeing with me rather than arguing.
So again, I ask, why are you guys even arguing against Crit? Why are you guys even arguing against me?

The point originally, and still remains, is that 4.x requires team oriented play more than ever, the ability to read situations (that skill also includes with who you're playing with and who you're playing against) and the ability to carry solo is lowered tremendously.

And again, if people are deterred from PvP because they don't understand how to work with a team, then that's their problem.

And you misread, I stated that classes are more balanced now in 4.x than in 3.x, not the other way around. Please refer to my previous post with the quote that my friend said.