Eureka

[Alien_Gamer]

I mean this is true but the point is to keep you playing, not instant gratification. That's the reason you keep coming back, just the hope of getting the item. Then again it depends on how low the drop rate will be, which we don't know quite yet.

Who said anything about instant gratification?

There are better ways of prolonging content than RNG for a rare drop. Here's an example.
1. A rare drop happens 1% of the time which means if you kill the mob 100 times you are likely to get it at some point but its also possible to kill it 200 times and get nothing. This removes all control over the rewards from the player, thats never a good thing and only serves to create frustration among players. There is ample evidence on these forums alone for this.
2. A drop is gauranteed every time the mob is killed but SE requires 100 of them. The player knows exactly how much work is required and can easily measure their progress to stay motivated. They can see how close they're getting and don't get frustrated because RNG hates them. They know exactly where they are and when they'll be done.

Both options should have the player finish in 100 kills. The first isn't a sure thing, the second is. Both require a time investment and neither has instant gratification (unless RNG blesses you on the first kill). I would keep doing the second type of reward, I'd give up on the first quickly because I have better things to do with my time.

As for how low the drop rate will be...given SE's history with drop rates? Abysmal.

[Soupa]

Who said anything about instant gratification?

There are better ways of prolonging content than RNG for a rare drop. Here's an example.
1. A rare drop happens 1% of the time which means if you kill the mob 100 times you are likely to get it at some point but its also possible to kill it 200 times and get nothing. This removes all control over the rewards from the player, thats never a good thing and only serves to create frustration among players. There is ample evidence on these forums alone for this.
2. A drop is gauranteed every time the mob is killed but SE requires 100 of them. The player knows exactly how much work is required and can easily measure their progress to stay motivated. They can see how close they're getting and don't get frustrated because RNG hates them. They know exactly where they are and when they'll be done.

Both options should have the player finish in 100 kills. The first isn't a sure thing, the second is. Both require a time investment and neither has instant gratification (unless RNG blesses you on the first kill). I would keep doing the second type of reward, I'd give up on the first quickly because I have better things to do with my time.

As for how low the drop rate will be...given SE's history with drop rates? Abysmal.

Getting one every time is the definition of instant gratification. While what you're saying is true, that doing a system like that would make players happy and provide a non-frustrating experience in obtaining their relic weapon/armor, it would make getting what you want painstakingly easy and that is not the goal with this content. It's goal has never been to keep people motivated or happy or even complete the relic in question, there are probably thousands maybe millions of unfinished relics out there.(I never did finish that ARR relic...)You're forgetting that relic's goal is, and has always been, to keep people playing.Relic has never been a necessary part of the game, it's always been optional side content for players to keep themselves entertained with, heck they're usually on par with relevant savage weapons. You always just have the option of just not doing it or dropping it if you don't like it. I disagree that the content should be made as easy as that, I'm for reasonably low drop rates. Someone said it earlier but players are gonna make or break this content and I agree, excited to see if people think the struggle is meaningful.

[Zojha]

[...], it would make getting what you want painstakingly easy [...]

You clearly don't understand how it works.

If something has a 1% drop rate, then on average, people will require 100 runs to get it (solo - groups are a multiplicator). If you get a token every time and need 100, then people will also run it 100 times on average. That means that the total amount of times the content is run is identical either way. Both systems "keep people playing" exactly the same way.

The difference lies only in the distribution - With RNG, you might only do it once, get your item and then stop. Another person however might need to run it 200 times. With tokens, both need to run it 100 times each. In other words: RNG drops is what allows people to "get things painstakingly easy", while others need to work harder to compensate. The overall work is the same on average, you just shift workload from the lucky who can quit early to the unlucky who have to work overtime. You make things easier for some and harder for others, the average difficulty is the same. Do I need to rephrase it again? I think the point should be driven home by now.

[Soupa]

You clearly don't understand how it works.

If something has a 1% drop rate, then on average, people will require 100 runs to get it (solo - groups are a multiplicator). If you get a token every time and need 100, then people will also run it 100 times on average. That means that the total amount of times the content is run is identical either way. Both systems "keep people playing" exactly the same way.

The difference lies only in the distribution - With RNG, you might only do it once, get your item and then stop. Another person however might need to run it 200 times. With tokens, both need to run it 100 times each. In other words: RNG drops is what allows people to "get things painstakingly easy", while others need to work harder to compensate. The overall work is the same on average, you just shift workload from the lucky who can quit early to the unlucky who have to work overtime. You make things easier for some and harder for others, the average difficulty is the same. Do I need to rephrase it again? I think the point should be driven home by now.

This is just trying to keep the system fair and again easy. Stuff that isn't exactly needed in a grind. You don't need to be so hostile about it, this is just a discussion jeez.

[Canopia]

This is just trying to keep the system fair and again easy. Stuff that isn't exactly needed in a grind. You don't need to be so hostile about it, this is just a discussion jeez.

not much of a discussion when you are of the mindset "Im right, youre wrong" then you throwing out claims of hostility when their ideas conflict with yours. if anyones hostile, its you and your fervent overzealous need to be right and shut down discussion.

[Soupa]

not much of a discussion when you are of the mindset "Im right, youre wrong" then you throwing out claims of hostility when their ideas conflict with yours. if anyones hostile, its you and your fervent overzealous need to be right and shut down discussion.

Where have I shut down discussion? I encourage everyone to post. I’m simply offering my opinion, my opinion is not absolute.