Eureka

[Soupa]

The issue is when it comes to rare drops from NMs it stops becoming "working for it" and quickly becomes "sacrifice a lalafell and pray you get your drop". I don't mind a NM being difficult to defeat for a drop but I hate low drop rates.

I mean this is true but the point is to keep you playing, not instant gratification. That's the reason you keep coming back, just the hope of getting the item. Then again it depends on how low the drop rate will be, which we don't know quite yet.

[Alien_Gamer]

I mean this is true but the point is to keep you playing, not instant gratification. That's the reason you keep coming back, just the hope of getting the item. Then again it depends on how low the drop rate will be, which we don't know quite yet.

Who said anything about instant gratification?

There are better ways of prolonging content than RNG for a rare drop. Here's an example.
1. A rare drop happens 1% of the time which means if you kill the mob 100 times you are likely to get it at some point but its also possible to kill it 200 times and get nothing. This removes all control over the rewards from the player, thats never a good thing and only serves to create frustration among players. There is ample evidence on these forums alone for this.
2. A drop is gauranteed every time the mob is killed but SE requires 100 of them. The player knows exactly how much work is required and can easily measure their progress to stay motivated. They can see how close they're getting and don't get frustrated because RNG hates them. They know exactly where they are and when they'll be done.

Both options should have the player finish in 100 kills. The first isn't a sure thing, the second is. Both require a time investment and neither has instant gratification (unless RNG blesses you on the first kill). I would keep doing the second type of reward, I'd give up on the first quickly because I have better things to do with my time.

As for how low the drop rate will be...given SE's history with drop rates? Abysmal.

[Soupa]

Who said anything about instant gratification?

There are better ways of prolonging content than RNG for a rare drop. Here's an example.
1. A rare drop happens 1% of the time which means if you kill the mob 100 times you are likely to get it at some point but its also possible to kill it 200 times and get nothing. This removes all control over the rewards from the player, thats never a good thing and only serves to create frustration among players. There is ample evidence on these forums alone for this.
2. A drop is gauranteed every time the mob is killed but SE requires 100 of them. The player knows exactly how much work is required and can easily measure their progress to stay motivated. They can see how close they're getting and don't get frustrated because RNG hates them. They know exactly where they are and when they'll be done.

Both options should have the player finish in 100 kills. The first isn't a sure thing, the second is. Both require a time investment and neither has instant gratification (unless RNG blesses you on the first kill). I would keep doing the second type of reward, I'd give up on the first quickly because I have better things to do with my time.

As for how low the drop rate will be...given SE's history with drop rates? Abysmal.

Getting one every time is the definition of instant gratification. While what you're saying is true, that doing a system like that would make players happy and provide a non-frustrating experience in obtaining their relic weapon/armor, it would make getting what you want painstakingly easy and that is not the goal with this content. It's goal has never been to keep people motivated or happy or even complete the relic in question, there are probably thousands maybe millions of unfinished relics out there.(I never did finish that ARR relic...)You're forgetting that relic's goal is, and has always been, to keep people playing.Relic has never been a necessary part of the game, it's always been optional side content for players to keep themselves entertained with, heck they're usually on par with relevant savage weapons. You always just have the option of just not doing it or dropping it if you don't like it. I disagree that the content should be made as easy as that, I'm for reasonably low drop rates. Someone said it earlier but players are gonna make or break this content and I agree, excited to see if people think the struggle is meaningful.

[Zojha]

[...], it would make getting what you want painstakingly easy [...]

You clearly don't understand how it works.

If something has a 1% drop rate, then on average, people will require 100 runs to get it (solo - groups are a multiplicator). If you get a token every time and need 100, then people will also run it 100 times on average. That means that the total amount of times the content is run is identical either way. Both systems "keep people playing" exactly the same way.

The difference lies only in the distribution - With RNG, you might only do it once, get your item and then stop. Another person however might need to run it 200 times. With tokens, both need to run it 100 times each. In other words: RNG drops is what allows people to "get things painstakingly easy", while others need to work harder to compensate. The overall work is the same on average, you just shift workload from the lucky who can quit early to the unlucky who have to work overtime. You make things easier for some and harder for others, the average difficulty is the same. Do I need to rephrase it again? I think the point should be driven home by now.

[Mahrze]

"sacrifice a lalafell and pray you get your drop"

This is why I always bring my pack of sacrificial lalas.

[Suetan124]

The issue is when it comes to rare drops from NMs it stops becoming "working for it" and quickly becomes "sacrifice a lalafell and pray you get your drop". I don't mind a NM being difficult to defeat for a drop but I hate low drop rates.

Sacrifice a lala?! I'm game for that... come here Lolorito

[Zojha]

Well... let's just say the more I learn about it, the less hyped I am.

It's probably gonna boil down to making a full party to grind out random mobs in an AoE fest until a NM pops. Then you pray people call out the NM, rush there to zerg it down and pray again to get enough credit for a chance at a drop. Going in solo is probably not going to be fruitful and going in as a group probably will be a cakewalk unless you go into high level territory as lowie.

They are probably tying this to the relic for a good reason.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I wonder why it is that every time they try to implement something similar to the way XI was, people immediately hate that theres RNG and mob grinding.

[WellFooled]

I wonder why it is that every time they try to implement something similar to the way XI was, people immediately hate that theres RNG and mob grinding.

I for one loved a lot about FFXI, but if all Eureka has to offer is RNG and mob grinding then that is nothing like FFXI. XI was a huuuge grindfest for sure, but in addition to that there was a lot of variety. When they added new content that content stayed viable for years. In FFXIV when new stuff is added it replaces the old stuff and only stays viable for a few months.

[Burningskull]

not sure what FFXI you played but the one i played was exactly like Eureka. You spent hours grinding just get 1 maybe 2 levels. and when you finally reached lvl 75 the only thing to do was camp NMs in sky. then they added thavanzia or w/e and access to that area was gated behind low lvl fights that you didn't have level sync for so you then needed low level gear go do, and if you didn't have the right job you had to depend on the generosity of other players to take you along for the fight. Most people only wanted to kite kill things because melee gave the mob tp which let it do moves that didn't have ground aoes to run out of which cause you to get hit which cause healers to have to heal you instead of the tank which ran then out of mp and since mp didn't regenerate like it does in this game that was probably a wipe. so no. nothing in eureka sounds good to me.