Plot migration and why the housing problem persists, SE please start listening.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

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Given this point, SE made housing too cheap. If housing was meant for FCs mainly, this means giving out prices for houses that reflect people pooling gil together, this means something like 50 mil for small, 100 mil for med and 150 mil for large (prices need to very depending on gil per server) They need prices to match the supply they can give, otherwise you end up with this shortage nonsense they got currently.

It would been much better if they had an instance system for personal and the current wards for FC. SE messed up housing in several ways:
-housing too cheap in comparison of the supply they are able to give
-letting people muti-box for housing
-4 people per fc to buy a house is not strict enough
-encourage people to tenant more

They should address the house hording for resell long ago, Why didn't they give the update we have now once they released subwards or have this change in HW release?
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Orignally housing was FC only when release, and it was much more expensive.

It also varied on price based on the server economy.

They had said that personal housing would be different and cheaper than FC housing, but they just went with the quick and easy implementation of just allowing individuals to purchase ward housing.

If they went with instance housing in the beginning, yeah it would've solved a lot of issues but that didn't happen. If anything, they shouldn't have had the need to add Apartments if they allowed us to customized our Inn Room. You're right tho, making FC Housing and Personal Housing the same was one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I completely agree on that front. The Housing Limitation should've definitely been there since the beginning but alas, they didn't go this route.
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Yeah, the decision to allow individual players to purchase ward housing probably ruined what the devs had in mind for them leading to all the restrictions they had to put in place...

Whole system is a punishment to everyone. No matter what restrictions they put up, don't put up, etc it a punishment. Even people who have a house are still under punishment. Why? Because of Auto-demo. We're not allowed to take extended breaks from the game, we aren't allowed to have life happen. If life happens, oh well, goodbye to your house. Have something really bad happen to the point you can't even get on 35 days after your house has been demo, to bad, goodbye all your gil and housing items. Hope you didn't have money put into any housing items that were from the mogstation because that just went bye bye also.

Point is: the system a punishment because SE can't get their act together and do something right that is fair to everyone. Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions. All on a game we pay to play and should deserve the right to keep the things we worked hard for.
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I recall the devs outright stating they didn't like the idea of having to pay upkeep for housing, or systems that removed it due to lack of use...

But, their decisions lead to those same systems being necessary.

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it wouldn't matter if it didn't have the 30% off the normal price because it doesn't make much of a difference and it wouldn't stop players from moving!...
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Actually, I believe it's the % off the lowest possible price of the plot, not the starting price.
So it's much less.

[HyoMinPark]

Actually, I believe it's the % off the lowest possible price of the plot, not the starting price.
So it's much less.

It is. Here’s some math I did in another thread for anyone interested in just how little you actually “save” when relocating:

It only subtracts 30% of the lowest possible plot price from the plot you relocate to.

So, if you relocated from a small Grade 5 plot (3,000,000 gil) to a Grade 1 medium (20,000,000 gil), you only save 30% of the lowest price for that small plot, which is negligible (in this situation):
—The lowest price for a Grade 5 Small is 1,488,000 gil
—30% of that is only 446,400 gil
—So the purchase price of that Grade 1 Medium is 19,553,600 gil.

If you relocate from a Grade 3 Medium (18,000,000 gil) to a Grade 3 Large (45,000,000 gil):
—The lowest price for a Graede 3 Medium is 8,928,000 gil
—30% of that is only 2,678,400 gil
—So the purchase price of the Grade 3 Large is 42,321,600 gil

It’s not a flat 75% price reduction on the plot you move to. People that relocate technically spend more gil on housing than people who look to purchase for the first time, depending on the situation. In the scenario where a Grade 5 Small moved to a Grade 1 Medium, that individual would spend 22,903,600 gil, as opposed to a new purchaser, who would only spend 21,000,000 mil (this is including the cost of a building permit, which is 1,000,000 gil for medium houses); in the scenario where a Grade 3 Medium moved to a Grade 3 Large, they would have spent a total of 61,321,600, where as a fresh buyer would spend 48,000,000 gil (the building permit for a large is 3,000,000).

The only way people are going to significantly save are if they relocate and downgrade, which would not really be a negative of the relocation feature, or if the more expensive plots were able to devalue to their lowest possible purchase price. And, let’s be honest: it’s not a likely situation nowadays that a Grade 1 Large/50,000,000 gil plot is going to be able to devalue to 24,800,000 gil.

Like I said, the only way to save significantly would be to either massively downgrade your plot, or be lucky enough to secure a larger/higher grade plot when it has managed to fully devalue. And, let’s face it, what’s the likelihood of the latter situation actually happening?

[Cylla]

I recall the devs outright stating they didn't like the idea of having to pay upkeep for housing, or systems that removed it due to lack of use...

But, their decisions lead to those same systems being necessary.

That is correct.
They kept making promises about how they weren't going to have house removal and the likes and yet here we are, just as you said, because of their decision to half ass the housing system, we are now punished for it. It only necessary because they screwed up badly.

[Reinha]

Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

SE will continue the model in all future housing releases. Anyone looking to get a private house should buy one as soon as they open for individuals. A placeholder of any size in any city state. You will be able to relocate later but you will never get a fair chance to directly buy your dream plot as soon as more wards are released. I don't think it should be this way but there's nothing we can do about it.

We're sure there will be various comments regarding the current restriction on purchasing an estate for personal use; however, we would like to give opportunities to free companies without an estate to purchase first. When new plots are added in the future, we’re planning to apply the same measures. Once enough plots have been distributed to free companies, we will remove the restriction on purchasing an estate for personal use.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/357237

[Vstarstruck]

Orignally housing was FC only when release, and it was much more expensive.

It also varied on price based on the server economy.

They had said that personal housing would be different and cheaper than FC housing, but they just went with the quick and easy implementation of just allowing individuals to purchase ward housing.

and it should STILL be that way.

This isn't about what house I want.

does not flow with:

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example:

I want to buy a Medium House. 4.2 rolls out and only allows for FC purchases and relocating for owners of a house. New/Old FCs come in and buy or relocate to a big house. Keep in mind that Large and Medium Houses are very limited compare to Small Houses.

So there is lots of smalls open I assume right now for people to buy as personal still left. I still think there is going to be a shortage because they are too cheap in comparison of supply. regardless this sounds too much of entitlement. When something is limited, everyone is not entitled to said object (I disagree with having hosing so limited, they should done better to allow people have some kind of house) but we need to keep in reason with this discussion with what we have now.

Someone that I know that loaned some gil to someone, on that server goblet meds where open for a long while. Though the person that got the loan would preferred a different plot, they where happy to at least to have some medium. I think you should read HyoMinPark's story again.

It is. Here’s some math I did in another thread for anyone interested in just how little you actually “save” when relocating:



Like I said, the only way to save significantly would be to either massively downgrade your plot, or be lucky enough to secure a larger/higher grade plot when it has managed to fully devalue. And, let’s face it, what’s the likelihood of the latter situation actually happening?

You never save gil relocating. If you do move large to small it is effectively paying 50 mil for the small.

relocating is always more of a cost then buying new.

Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

Yes it is fair with what they have to do with their limited resource, you are not entitled to something of limited resource. You are effectively complaining about having a less of a chance of a plot you want vs having a house because house relocation doesn't magically decrease the number of plots to someone buying new.

[HyoMinPark]

You never save gil relocating. If you do move large to small it is effectively paying 50 mil for the small.

relocating is always more of a cost then buying new.

I know that. But others seem to be under the impression that people who relocate save massive amounts of gil, when that’s not the case. The savings from relocation are insignificant because people are essentially still paying for two plots—the only way to have significant savings (i.e., get a better relocation discount), is to significantly downgrade your plot (you’ll technically “get more” out of the relocation discount, even though you’ll have still spent more gil overall) or if plots were able to devalue fully (which, they aren’t). You will still be spending more money overall, just the “discount” for relocating will be more significant.
The thread I originally quoted myself from, the OP was saying that people relocate and save a bunch of gil doing so, when they actually don’t, and was advocating for people who relocate to pay for the full price of the plot because the relocation discount encourages them to relocate more due to “saving gil”, and it’s not fair for people who have to pay the original purchase price of the plot, not a “discounted price”.

That being said, it is “technically” possible for people to spend less on relocation—e.g., they originally purchased a plot at a devalued price, and then relocated to a plot that was also at a devalued price—but such a situation is unlikely to occur at this point in the Housing System’s life, because houses are more affordable than they were in the past, and the demand for them is higher thanks to a large playerbase.

[Vstarstruck]

I know that. But others seem to be under the impression that people who relocate save massive amounts of gil, when that’s not the case. The savings from relocation are insignificant because people are essentially still paying for two plots—the only way to have significant savings (i.e., get a better relocation discount), is to significantly downgrade your plot (you’ll technically “get more” out of the relocation discount, even though you’ll have still spent more gil overall) or if plots were able to devalue fully (which, they aren’t). You will still be spending more money overall, just the “discount” for relocating will be more significant.

That being said, it is “technically” possible for people to spend less on relocation—e.g., they originally purchased a plot at a devalued price, and then relocated to a plot that was also at a devalued price—but such a situation is unlikely to occur at this point in the Housing System’s life, because houses are more affordable than they were in the past, and the demand for them is higher thanks to a large playerbase.

Yep, it is technically possible, but realistically impossible. When you read stories like all larges are gone within the minute of servers go live, all meds a few hours after, there is no time for you to get the first tic of devaluation. (really interesting housing story of your friend btw, i would like to tell you some of the ones i heard in a more private matter but alas. Sad your friend decided to end a friendship after so long from something based on that is not even real or something you can really keep.)

edit: yeah i know, I was there too to call BS on that. I think I too had a math post just after yours on there.

[FallenArisen0990]

I've already said my piece on the manner. Paint me or label me as you want, it won't change how I feel on the matter.

SE will continue the model in all future housing releases. Anyone looking to get a private house should buy one as soon as they open for individuals. A placeholder of any size in any city state. You will be able to relocate later but you will never get a fair chance to directly buy your dream plot as soon as more wards are released. I don't think it should be this way but there's nothing we can do about it.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/357237

(No comment, I'll just leave it at that.)

[Vonleo]

I don't get why they just don't make some sort of housing program for each major patch for example they put an announcement that for you to get a house you need to send in a application and listed in that application is the size plot you want and where you want it and how much it will be? so SE knows basically exactly how many wards to open up. So if people miss the application dead line they would need to wait until the next application cycle to get in on a house. This way people get the size plot they want where they want it all they have to be willing to do is pay the max amount of gil before devaluation happens. If too many people are asking for large/medium why not just make wards with just large and mediums? All that would need to be done would be to readjust the plot sizes by taking out small houses that very few seem to want?

just my 2 cents anyways.

[Nihility]

I kind of read these threads as a "WAH i want it for me!"

the reason everyone says ffxiv housing is terrible is because it's actually the most amazing housing in any mmo.
Actual persistent neighborhoods where you can walk around the streets or just sit in your yard and watch other houses and people
VS housing in most other games that is just an instanced house on a square of land floating in the aether
Quality like that comes at the cost of it taking actual server resources to maintain IE limited availability

We have apartment buildings giving all the instanced rooms in the world, we have the inn rooms giving all the functionality, we have guild rooms giving personal living space inside an FC house.

Yes gardening is an issue for some, but they did say they are trying to address that for apartments
and workshops should no longer be an issue for any existing fc and they'll probably have apartment workshops before it becomes an issue again

I personally missed the shirogane rush due to a login error and having well over enough for a large i went back to towns and watched crystals and got a small in a horrible location in mist, couldn't even see the beach, because having a house was more important than having the perfect house.
This relocation felt like a reward for all the people that said I will participate even if i can't get perfection. I logged in so smoothly this time and went straight to the coveted shiro 30 and tagged the board and all i had to do was click that final confirmation but i left it for guilds and got my favorite medium in the goblet

We have so much available personal space for anyone at this point, the actual houses really are just a grand luxury.