The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[KaldeaSahaline]

Disagree, anyone who over simplifies things (he basically said the entire game is missile command) and brings up min percentile logs as proof a class is OP is not going to get the benefit of the doubt from me. It would be different if he approached it in a different way but he was pretty much indirectly making fun of people and said that we're "defending non challenging content" by not wanting enrages removed. Maybe if he approached it in a different way people wouldn't be discountinghim so readily. That's just me though. (I'm talking about Bobs).

Half of the games mechanics actually FEEL like missile command to me. As far as SB goes, I've cleared the entirety of Deltascape Savage and half of Sigmascape Savage already (in pugs) and all EX's playing this game 4 hours a week. I wish I had a static for UCoB, because I simply don't want to invest the time to learn it in pugs. I'm also a previous top 20 US WoW raider. I always hated 18-24 minute boss fights in WoW and I will hate them here, especially considering how FF14's encounter design is considerably more punishing than WoWs.

Just because I haven't done UCoB doesn't mean I don't have any insight into what it would be like. I've watched streams, I've read guides, I've analyzed the mechanics, and I've done similar fights in other games. These all afford me some insight, definitely not as much as someone who has cleared, but to say it offers NONE? That's a ridiculous notion. That's why I don't advocate for blanket disregard and instead advocate for targeted rebuttals in order to discredit his POV.

Now that you have some insight into my perspective, hopefully that allows some credibility for discussion on Bob's behalf. Even though HE hasn't cleared/set foot, some of his points have merit and are worth discussing.

Excuse you, but I never told anyone to "get lost" so don't put words in my mouth. If you notice my post DID ask him a question: "how can you think that way?" and basically explained that from my point of view his stance makes no logical sense to me. So, that's interesting... didn't I do what you asked? He has simply not replied.

Dial it down a notch Miste ^_^. I did not personally attack you, nor did I put words in your mouth. I simply iterated a more direct point that you and other posters made.

I did see that you asked a question and I am glad you did. As I suspected of course it was ignored, much like mine was as well.

My "see above" was in relation to you saying that expect someone to have experienced something prior to commenting, to which I vehemently disagreed and firmly believe that does the discussion more harm than good. I previously cited my reasoning for this analysis, and as always are welcome to rebuttal. You can see above in this post in my response to @Vaer for additional clarification.

Thing is though naturally other people are going to call you out on opinions which have no base. Like if you told someone "I hate Sushi" and they are like "Well, have you tried any of it?" and if you answer "No, none." ...do you really think that person is going to take you seriously? Chances are they'll probably say something along the lines of "Well how can you hate something you haven't tried?"

This is a great example that further supports my point. If you dismiss the person (i.e. not take them seriously) you never learn WHY they hate something they never tried Vs. asking why they hate something they never tried.

To be fair, it’s not a perceived lack of experience; Bobs has said that he hasn’t done anything past V2S; since he hasn’t cleared Neo, it’s safe to assume that he’s never set foot into Ultimate. He also equated Savage fights to a game of “Asteroids” in another thread, yet has only seemed to do the two most easiest of the fights. Hence why everyone keeps saying things like “If it’s so easy, go clear Ultimate” and “You have no experience, so how can you speak on the difficulty/state of the content”.

To which I actually in a way agree with. That has a lot to do with encounter design decisions FF14 employs and I've long thought is an excellent discussion point. I've actually cleared Neo, half of Sigmascape Savage, and all EXs. I have not set foot into Ultimate, but I've done similar fights in other games, and I've watched streams, discussed with people who have participated, read guides, etc.

I'm all for making Bob's defend his viewpoints. What I am not for is dismissing them entirely.

I have no Rival Wings experience; that doesn’t give me any sort of perspective to judge or make comments about the current state of the content. By equivalent, Bobs has no experience in Ultimate Savage; that doesn’t give him any sort of perspective to judge or make comments about the state of it.

So you have 0 insight into your job or how it works in PVP? You've never played a single PVP match in FF14, or any game? You've never watched a video or a stream or read any reddit/OF posts about it? You have nothing at all?

I'm surprised you of all people take such a hard line stance. I'll be honest I expected better.

I got the data from NCSoft's earnings reports:

I'm not surprised you can't find talk about this - I was actively reading the GW2 forums & reddit during this time, and they were filled to the brim with "ANet Defense Squad" - people defending ANet religiously, attacking any and every negative post, telling ppl to leave or "just use party finder", etc. In all the "This game is too hard" or "where are the people" threads I saw the same people spamming them with "I find the game easy, git gud" or "use party finder" / "I see lots of ppl" type of responses.

You made a claim that their revenue dropped massively as a result of a change of difficulty across the curve, but nothing you've linked indicates that. That's my point. It's very obvious that it dropped and we have the data to verify that, but what I want to know was how and why you know for a fact it was due to making content more difficult. Nothing you provide supplements that statement.

I wish more fights had "soft enrages" rather than frustrating wipes at 1% because of "just barely not good enough". I'm also okay with DPS checks, but always having them in the form of hard enrage is a little uninspired - why not more things like A3S back in the day with the hands? That was a neat mechanic. Just saying "you're done at this many minutes into the fight" is kinda lazy.

I think there are ways to make sure people are doing adequate DPS without always putting arbitrary timers on fights.

The A3S hands were not a soft enrage. They were a hard enrage. If you failed to pull together/away you wiped instantly. If you missed the DPS check you wiped instantly. If I am wrong about this let me know, it's been a long time since I've set foot in A3S.