Fending Accessories Strength Gain

[Aana]

You gotta take into account levels 50-70 when potencies of tanks are dropped. You’ll be dealing undesirable and unappealing damage. As well as just slowing down parties that are leveling to 70.

Lv all content below level 50 was designed with Tanks wearing Vit gear in mind in the 1st place. Adding Str to Tank accessories increasing tank damage by X% while also lowering overall tank damage by X% simultaneously does nothing at any level.

Actually theres an even simpler way. Lower Tank weapon damage by X% where X% is the damage gained from full str stat on accessories.

Random Numbers Example:
Adding Str to accessories increases tank damage by 25%. 100 damage=125. Lower all weapon damage by 20%. New damage of 125*0.8=100. Same damage.

That applies if your level 15 or 150. Tack on the ilvl appropriate amount of Str to every vit accessory. Lower base damage of all weapons to compensate. End result is all tanks do the same damage post change as pre change. All gear now matters. Vit/Damage are still separate stats.

If anything it would be a buff to lower level jobs. Currently we have ~40 str on accs. That would jump to 90+. Lets just say 2x the bonus. At levels below 70 vit accessories have 0 str. So a level 69 accessory might go from 0 str to 80ish. That is actually a greater buff to jobs below 70. 70+ we only gain ~50% of the full value because we already have half the str. lv 1-69 accs would gain 100% of the value.

This would be a tank buff 1-69 and a sidegrade lv 70+.

[SoulSkyheart]

Actually theres an even simpler way. Lower Tank weapon damage by X% where X% is the damage gained from full str stat on accessories..

This suggestion attracted me to it more than it should. We are tanks, we are supposed to scale to be the raid boss of THE raid boss. I’d like if we had high potencies the lower our levels and scale down lower as we grow higher in level for lower scaled potencies will be made up by the stats we gain off gear.

I can imagine a 300 potency ability at 50 be scaled to 150-200 to offset the balance between gear. It can and will help feel tanks feel powerful without stripping them from their current power growth. I would like to feel like I’m growing in every step of my leveling experience, all the way to end game where that satisfaction level is higher and stronger than it ever was.

Abilities that were useless or niche can give them that umf we are all looking for.

[Kabooa]

What would be the point of gaining more strength if you just devise a convoluted system that keeps you at about the level you are now?

[Rocond]

Yeah, I have. Only a minimal main stat increasement. :/

So, I'm guessing that me, getting pentamelded (STR VI, DH VI, x3 DH V) HQ accs on my tank, sets me for 6 months? Wow, way to kill O5S for me, lol. Once again.

I plan on using the O5S neck and ring over crafted.

[Aana]

What would be the point of gaining more strength if you just devise a convoluted system that keeps you at about the level you are now?

Because right now the vast majority of our power and defense are exclusively left side pieces to the point that accessories can be 20+ ilevels lower with a few melds stay BIS. 220 crafted accessories were bIS from 4.0 to 4.2. I just finished pentamelding my 250 accessories yesterday. I will wear them until 4.4. I will cry every time a tank accessory drops because it might as well just be a middle finger to my raid group. All this because they don't scale our primary damage stat like every other class (even healers).

Theres 2 problems.
1. Players want gear progression like every other class. Meaningful. Worthwhile. Players don't have that now.
2. SE doesn't want tank damage to get to high and wants to separate defense and offense stats to balance content more easily.

So what are the solutions:
* Make vit our damage stat: SE tried it. SE didn't like it and the reason they told us was they wanted to be able to scale defense and offense separately. If they are 1 stat its hard to balance content.
* Make vit/str a 50/50 split. SE tried it. SE didn't like it.
* Put str on accessories. SE halfassed it. They put half the str on and scaled it miserably (1 per 10 ilvl) which doesn't actually solve the player problem. Tank accessories are instantly garbage and never used. Tanks still have the odd burden of having expensive pentameld be BIS for the entire ilvl tier unlike every other class.
* Put FULL str on accessories. SE hasn't tried because tank damage would be 'to damn high'.

So this 'convoluted' solution gives SE what they want. Separate damage and defense stats and keeps tank damage in check. It gives players what they want. More even power distribution between left and right side on par with other classes so tank accessories are actually worth equipping and don't make the raid facepalm when they drop, and stops the stupid system where expensive pentameld gear 20 ilvls lower is BIS. It makes tanks the same as everyone else while accounting for SE's self stated reasons why they wont do what players want.


All that besides, theres nothing really convoluted about it. Add the same str to all tank accs as on melee gear. Whatever % that raises damage, lower weapon damage across the board by that %. Its literally only making 2 gear number changes. No potency rebalancing. No revamping jobs. Changing numbers on gear by flat ratios. Its stupid easy.

[SoulSkyheart]

Now that we’re on the topic of on defense and offense and how offense should not be too high. Why in god’s name did they create DRK’s sacrifice offense for defense TBN when it can’t break even the damage done for the mana cost. First their class is busted, next their stats are busted, now their class design’s original purpose is busted. This just keeps getting better and better doesn’t it?

[Kabooa]

All that besides, theres nothing really convoluted about it. Add the same str to all tank accs as on melee gear. Whatever % that raises damage, lower weapon damage across the board by that %. Its literally only making 2 gear number changes. No potency rebalancing. No revamping jobs. Changing numbers on gear by flat ratios. Its stupid easy.

They'd be more likely to reduce the strength of Main Hand weapons and reallocate that to the Raid accessories, given that Weapon Damage doesn't really happen in fractions, and I'd guarantee having your weapon damage dump 1-2 points would probably raise just as much ruckus, even if your fending accessories are now "Upgrades"

Secondly, anyone who wants to push the content as hard as possible is going to pentameld.

It isn't some unfair cost that Tanks are forced to do that others don't. Casul's gon' skimp out be it tank, DPS, or healer, but those who want to hit the content ASAP are pentamelding. Having more incentive to keep it doesn't make the cost inherently higher than someone else's.

[Chrono_Rising]

They'd be more likely to reduce the strength of Main Hand weapons and reallocate that to the Raid accessories, given that Weapon Damage doesn't really happen in fractions, and I'd guarantee having your weapon damage dump 1-2 points would probably raise just as much ruckus, even if your fending accessories are now "Upgrades"

Secondly, anyone who wants to push the content as hard as possible is going to pentameld.

It isn't some unfair cost that Tanks are forced to do that others don't. Casul's gon' skimp out be it tank, DPS, or healer, but those who want to hit the content ASAP are pentamelding. Having more incentive to keep it doesn't make the cost inherently higher than someone else's.

The difference is, every class will get their BiS by running content, except tanks will get it by dropping 3 million a piece.

Sure if you push content, many people are going to pentameld, this hasn't really seemed to be an issue. And if you don't care about a week 1 clear you can wait a week and get better gear and likely be fine. The only job that will need to reach BiS through crafting is tank. 4.05 to 4.2 tank BiS was 333, not 340.

To be clear, this isn't about pushing content. You can choose to not pentameld and still reach your BiS on both healer and dps. Unless you play tanks in which case you are forced to pentameld.

[Kabooa]

To be clear, this isn't about pushing content. You can choose to not pentameld and still reach your BiS on both healer and dps. Unless you play tanks in which case you are forced to pentameld.

The difference in BIS is mathed out somewhere in the realm of 1.8% DPS, at the expense of other attributes. BIS doesn't mean that much in this game, so I personally don't see the problem or the obsession with it. I won't say it doesn't have some value in satisfaction, but most of what is said here feels like its exaggerated a great deal.

Also, keep in mind I am arguing that Raid accessories should come with the Strength materia assumed (So it should be +25 over what it is now) which in turn further reduces the BiS difference to something like .8-1%. It's boggling they haven't at least done this.

The situation does suck, but it also seems a bit disingenuous to say this is somehow greatly unfair to Tanks.

[Chrono_Rising]

The difference in BIS is mathed out somewhere in the realm of 1.8% DPS, at the expense of other attributes. BIS doesn't mean that much in this game, so I personally don't see the problem or the obsession with it. I won't say it doesn't have some value in satisfaction, but most of what is said here feels like its exaggerated a great deal.

Also, keep in mind I am arguing that Raid accessories should come with the Strength materia assumed (So it should be +25 over what it is now) which in turn further reduces the BiS difference to something like .8-1%. It's boggling they haven't at least done this.

The situation does suck, but it also seems a bit disingenuous to say this is somehow greatly unfair to Tanks.

I understand what you are advocating for, and it is a good thing, provided we are able to meld the additional strength still.

I'm disagreeing with you trying to minimize this. It might be a small difference in dps. But once again, other classes reach their best gear set for running the content they are already running. Tanks do not. That is a clear difference that puts more burden on one class than the other, regardless of what the pushers are trying to do.

If I want that extra 1.8%, which healers and dps can get over time without time and gil investment over what is needed to run the content, I need to either have alot of gil, or spend a large amount of time and energy collecting that materia. That is a relatively large time investment that I wouldn't need to do if I played another class.

Is BiS the be all end all? No, it isn't game breaking for a tank to not reach their best in slot gear. Is it ideal for the game to have one job having to put in way more time than the other to reach that? No, it is really demotivating to know that, and yes that is a problem. You might find it disingenuous to suggest that only 1 job needing to spend millions of gil to reach their best gear, while the other two jobs will get theirs for free from running content the same content, but hey opinions right?

As a side note, I find it strange than SE feels that strength and vit need to be two different stats to be independently tuned. I would think that all that would need to be done is to change the class multiplier in the damage formula to tune that separately from out HP pool. At some level the game must work as a formula to compute our current maximum HP from our Vit and another formula to compute our damage from our strength. Lets call f our HP formula and g our damage forumla

f(vitality) = HP
g(c*vitality) = damage

Tune c to make c*vitality = whatever your desired strength is to tune damage. I find their reasoning very strange. If they are using the same damage formula for all classes and instead tuning damage output using class multipliers for damage, once again just tune that parameter instead of the amount of strength to adjust things. I don't understand why having two different stats means more freedom for tuning.

Then you could just replace the strength on tank gear with Tenacity and have yet another parameter for tuning incoming/outgoing tank damage on gear, and give tanks meaningful progression on gear and damage. This also makes tanks tankier with the tenacity mitigation, and highlights why you don't want dps getting punched by adds. Just my two cents.