The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Darrcyphfeid]

If dps checks/enrages are going to remain, then everyone needs to accept that the DPS meta is the meta that rules them all. That means as much damage out of everyone, with only as much healing done as "necessary" and tank stances being used for a fraction of the fight.

The majority of the community already accepts this as truth though, because it is: Everything in this game revolves around dealing as much damage as you can, as quickly as you can. This is evidenced in the very way the MSQ's solo instances, even for healers, are set up. There is a subset of the community that pushes back and asserts that healers should only heal, and tanks should sit in enmity stance at all times... but those people are factually wrong.

On the one hand they say that there shouldn't be this DPS min/maxing meta that pushes speed and lower clear times, but on the other they push a game design that encourages DPS min/maxing in order to succeed. Either the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, or SE is full of it.

When in doubt, just always assume that SE is full of it. It makes life so much easier.

When Yoshi says nonsensical things like "I want people to be able to play how they want," he's somewhere between saying "I need this people to subscribe to this game and maybe they'll learn to git gud over time" and "I don't want to encourage people to get hostile with one another." Look no further than his own chosen role: BLM. Playing how you want would imply you can be a Thunder- or Ice-mage, and yet clearly you're not going to make it through your solo instance encounters by doing that.

I think the punishment is in the time taken. It's easy to imagine a group of mouthbreathers throwing themselves at something until it dies, but gear durability is a thing, and duties already have a hard-locked timer on them of 60-120 minutes.

I do feel the need to point out that the complete removal of DPS checks and enrage timers would necessitate a massive increase in enemy HP and, by extension, would just turn the 60~120 minute instance timer into an enrage all its own.

[Quor]

This all in all is some very poor argumentation as to why enrage timers should not be a thing. I'm getting pretty tired of people further dumbing down this game, more and more. Remember, the game is reflective of its playerbase. The dumbing down of class complexity is a subtle slap in the face because the community on average is deemed as too stupid to meaningfully learn an already easy system. And they would be correct in my experience. Even now, the average joe is simply not good enough. We don't need to encourage that even further.
Skipping Soar in Zurvan Ex for example. Required AVAREGE DPS. People were moaning about it being too hard. So not only was the DPS low, the DPS needed to be higher in order to avoid mechanics. How much of a circus was that?
Enrage timers, as they are right now, have a good balance to allow average players to also clear the content. It's fine the way it is.

You're right, it is. And I too am tired of the "dumbing down" that has occurred. Yet here we are, with the WAR changes coming, and more people praising them on the tank forums than not, calling it an increase in DPS because of "gained Fell Cleaves" while completely ignoring a loss in AA DPS and the fact that the entire class is now a faceroll when it comes to damage. But I thank you for putting how I feel so eloquently into words.

The majority of the community already accepts this as truth though, because it is: Everything in this game revolves around dealing as much damage as you can, as quickly as you can. This is evidenced in the very way the MSQ's solo instances, even for healers, are set up. There is a subset of the community that pushes back and asserts that healers should only heal, and tanks should sit in enmity stance at all times... but those people are factually wrong.

When in doubt, just always assume that SE is full of it. It makes life so much easier.

When Yoshi says nonsensical things like "I want people to be able to play how they want," he's somewhere between saying "I need this people to subscribe to this game and maybe they'll learn to git gud over time" and "I don't want to encourage people to get hostile with one another." Look no further than his own chosen role: BLM. Playing how you want would imply you can be a Thunder- or Ice-mage, and yet clearly you're not going to make it through your solo instance encounters by doing that.

And you as well Darrc. I don't disagree with a damn thing you say here, and you've managed to put into words something that has long eluded me. It is factually wrong. Yet there are people who hold it as god's own truth. At least now I know I'm not taking crazy pills and it's just most of the tank forums (and SE) who are insane.

Thanks for the interesting discussion folks.

[Chrono_Rising]

The upcoming WAR nerfs have brought out the usual boilerplate from the peanut galleries;

You're right, it is. And I too am tired of the "dumbing down" that has occurred. Yet here we are, with the WAR changes coming, and more people praising them on the tank forums than not, calling it an increase in DPS because of "gained Fell Cleaves" while completely ignoring a loss in AA DPS and the fact that the entire class is now a faceroll when it comes to damage.

Quor, I see your argument failed to gain traction in the tank subforum so you are trying to get this misinformation to spread here. Let me summarize the responses on the tank subforum here: The initial Bok analysis is deeply flawed, he produced his 5% nerf by only taking into account the nerfs in his math, 5% is the effect of the change without including the new burst window and additional Fell Cleaves from not spending gauge and being able to take advantage of the infuriate trait.

Multiple people have worked on multiple spreadsheets and they all come to same conclusions, despite the net loss on the main combos and autoattacks and even the oGCD's the new warrior burst window and additional gauge should theoretically increase warrior dps above what warriors are currently pulling independent of ilvl. This may not be the playstyle people want, but it is likely not a nerf in damage, infact it is likely a buff or at least neutral.

If you don't believe the math and excel spreadsheets, which, despite what you seem to think, do take into account warrior's self buffing, raid buffs, and the reduction of the eye buff on things like autoattacks, then I suggest waiting for the content to release so that you can put it into practice rather than spreading misinformation here and trying to nuke enrage timers. And by the way, getting rid of enrage timers will do nothing to the dps meta of this game because believe it or not people actually enjoy speed running content for a reason, and its not for meeting enrage timers at this point. Who wants to run dungeons for 60 minutes? Who wants to kill neo ex death with autoattacks and be in the instance for 24 hours?

[Ophelie]

Quor, I see your argument failed to gain traction in the tank subforum so you are trying to get this misinformation to spread here. Let me summarize the responses on the tank subforum here: The initial Bok analysis is deeply flawed, he produced his 5% nerf by only taking into account the nerfs in his math, 5% is the effect of the change without including the new burst window and additional Fell Cleaves from not spending gauge and being able to take advantage of the infuriate trait.

Multiple people have worked on multiple spreadsheets and they all come to same conclusions, despite the net loss on the main combos and autoattacks and even the oGCD's the new warrior burst window and additional gauge should theoretically increase warrior dps above what warriors are currently pulling independent of ilvl. This may not be the playstyle people want, but it is likely not a nerf in damage, infact it is likely a buff or at least neutral.

If you don't believe the math and excel spreadsheets, which, despite what you seem to think, do take into account warrior's self buffing, raid buffs, and the reduction of the eye buff on things like autoattacks, then I suggest waiting for the content to release so that you can put it into practice rather than spreading misinformation here and trying to nuke enrage timers. And by the way, getting rid of enrage timers will do nothing to the dps meta of this game because believe it or not people actually enjoy speed running content for a reason, and its not for meeting enrage timers at this point. Who wants to run dungeons for 60 minutes? Who wants to kill neo ex death with autoattacks and be in the instance for 24 hours?

apology for poor english

where were you when OP was kill?

i was sat at Kugane eating cheeseburger when Yoshi-P call

'op is die'

'no'

and you?????????????????????????????????

[Chrono_Rising]

apology for poor english

where were you when OP was kill?

i was sat at Kugane eating cheeseburger when Yoshi-P call

'op is die'

'no'

and you?????????????????????????????????

I don't understand lol.

[Ophelie]

I don't understand lol.

You called OP out and murdered them with words.

Also memes.

[Soupa]

I don't understand lol.

That's an old meme he's saying because you annihilated OP. I didn't know murder was allowed on the forums GJ.

[Chrono_Rising]

That's an old meme he's saying because you annihilated OP. I didn't know murder was allowed on the forums GJ.

Ah I see, I miss these things sadly lol.