What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Jollyy5]

...

I tried my best to comprehend your stance on this thread, but failed to do so, and I try to learn from my mistakes.

So instead, let me dial all the way back to the beginning and ask: Why exactly are you here and what are you trying to achieve on this thread?

[Miste]

It's hard to tell if you're saying that in a good faith, especially after involving "language barrier", to be honest.

I'm going by your post I read from a few pages back where you said English is not your mother tongue so it may contribute to confusion for me and also for you.

Don't get me wrong though your English is quite good, just sometimes I find it hard to understand what you are saying since it isn't 100% fluent. Just being honest with you. I am not trying to be rude or malicious.

I'm not saying that discussion is pointless because antagonizing everyone is just gonna have to opposite effect of what you want. I have already talked about how commen and how easily healers tend to get them just for playing healer will just pick a side and camp their positions. And they will even be more much more adamant on continue their playstyle. Look all the lenght I have to go just to say something that isn't even against healer DPS.

Where am I antagonizing anyone though? I am explaining that healers should want to help their groups as much as they are capable of. The fact is there are some players who are lazy and that goes for any role. The ones who are actually factually being lazy are the ones we have issue with.

We don't always know which ones are being lazy, but they are out there and there are some easy indicators for who is being lazy. I've had some healers admit to the party "if you expect me to DPS then don't bother I'm too lazy to do that". It's a real quote from a healer I had in a group once. So in other words they COULD do more to help their party, but are simply too lazy to bother...no one wants that kind of person in their group.

Where did I ever say you were against healer dps? I never said that. I was only trying to say that in general our message to healers about using their whole kit is a good message and not to be misunderstood as something derisive. Yes, people get frustrated sometimes, but when you discuss on the forums it is different than going into the game and calling healers out personally.

Some people come into these threads making very ridiculous defense of healers who basically stand or jump around doing nothing when there is nothing to heal. That is why it is called Princess Healer because some healers don't DPS on principle sort of like "oh I could help you, I know how to help you, but I won't" and the people who defend them make it even worse because that is such a terrible attitude to have.

If ANY other role did that they would be called out on it and not defended. If everyone had that kind of mentality people wouldn't be helping each other. We should WANT to help each other.

You're the one that was telling me my approach would lead nowhere actually.

Where did I say that? I think you are misunderstanding me.

[Vyriah]

I tried my best to comprehend your stance on this thread, but failed to do so, and I try to learn from my mistakes.

So instead, let me dial all the way back to the beginning and ask: Why exactly are you here and what are you trying to achieve on this thread?

Here :

It's not because healing is too strong that they're not doing DPS, they're not doing DPS because they're scared of the healer responsability. FF XIV is balanced in a way to make healer easier to play to not scare players away from playing them. But doing so they confirm conservatives thinking that doing both DPS and healing is a risk. Also, the actual strengh of the healing spells and how you can use them at your advantage is something you learn with confidence. There's only 1 healer in each party before lv 50, you can't learn from looking at other player to that point if you don't play something else.

The changes arround the SCH concerned core healing gameplay, but not SCH specific gameplay. They modified mana costs and potencies. That means healer are balanced arround exhaution, but that's not exactly the case of most other MP using classes (outside of RDM, but only when they use support spell). It does makes sense and it kinda get the job done, but it doesn't naturally encourage using offensive spell.

Limit healing output by rotations completed by cooldown and linking with damage oriented spell would by a much more elegant solution. If you either reward DPS with more heal or more heal with DPS, anyone is naturally gonna do both. Let's say something stupid : if DB was linked to hitting an ennemy while aero was up instead of lillies, it's not like you will fail to heal if you don't do it but be rewarding if you do (I used this exemple because it was recurring idea in WHM thread, btw). That's just an exemple, I'm not thinking this is actually what should be done, but they need a whole kit that would work arround that kind of though process.

And as already underligned, there's a lot a things that would comfort players in general into continuing playing that way. There's one healer in dungeon each dungeon, there's few communication between players in them, healers tend to get a lot of commend because they're are healer, the average level is closer to them that the uptime crazy SCH and bad attitude of mostly premade lv gain players will comfort them that what they're doing is right, even if it's standing here doing nothing.

Watching for player feedback is pretty common nowdays, especially for online games. It's like decisions to add or change something are taken at complete random. Keeping player feedback is a reason to get those forum up in first place. So yes, talking about something on the forum can have a positive impact it the game.

Even though player feedback was encouraged early into SB. That's even the reason I checked the forum to begin with and it's exactly why I'm here talking about positive re-inforcement and such. DPS got that, why do healers still have those scattered spells kit ?

But strangely, now it's all about not understanding my post.
Like, I don't, if someone just bring language issues after 20 pages of discussion and everyone else just jumped on that (false) pretext to move the goalpost to south pole.

[Cynfael]

But strangely, now it's all about not understanding my post.
Like, I don't, if someone just bring language issues after 20 pages of discussion and everyone else just jumped on that (false) pretext to move the goalpost to south pole.

Speculating that part of the understanding gap between you and some other posters (including myself) might be due to language barrier is far more generous than saying that the gap exists because you simply aren't making any sense. That's why you are seeing language being brought up as an issue, and it's actually giving benefit of the doubt to you.

[Miste]

But strangely, now it's all about not understanding my post.
Like, I don't, if someone just bring language issues after 20 pages of discussion and everyone else just jumped on that (false) pretext to move the goalpost to south pole.

Well if you don't want to hear the truth and/or for me to be honest with you then I guess that's that. No point in continuing.

Have a good day.

[Jollyy5]

Here:

To me it sounds like you want change to how healers and their abilities work in general, which is fine and dandy I suppose but has little relevance here since that's something beyond our reach, so we have to make do with what we have.

We can't do anything about how abilities work since we aren't SE, but we certainly can find the most efficient way to use them, which is one of those points we are trying to drive through.

[Valmaxian]

I think I may have posted something similar to this in one of the previous (innumerable really) threads on this topic, but I wanted to say it again:

1. While its possible to clear a dungeon/raid without doing so, players who do utilize their full class toolkit in parties/raids are more useful than those who do not. This not only applies to healers, but to DPS/Tanks as well.
2. Being more useful is quantifiably better than being less useful.

I think the issue here is that some players are construing the arguments of Pro-Healer DPS players as judgement on them personally for defending Non-Healer DPS stances. The true purpose is to illustrate how full utilization of one's class/role abilities always results in more beneficial play, and that this mentality benefits more people, and is therefore, better.

[Vyriah]

Snip.

And... all I said was that better healer kit would be good for everyone ?
If what you're saying isn't adressed to me, why is everyone answering me those thing about no DPS-healer ? It's a shame you don't remember telling me my posts would have no effect in the game, here :

Hate to burst your bubble, but since we have little to no control over the design of the game...why exactly do you expect us to be able to improve the game in ways that are outside our control?

Because that's the only moment in this whole thread someone actualThere, that's what I talk about. Instead of talking about some player into the game that don't play as you want them to, you could use this kind of thread as a way to promote changes in the game. Because right now, the game seem much likely to make healers artificially busy with things like asking them move arround, having more frequent raid damage or worse, those random statut like ExDeath's doom or Shinryu paralysis. That sure make healing busier but is it really the point ?

SB job up date was heavily designed arround secondary ressources, with those job jauge. They didn't do this at random, it's because they know about things like positive re-inforcement, the idea that you encourage what you want players to do instead of punishing what you don't want them to do. If player asked for that kind of change, it would be more likely for them to happen.ly answered to what I was talking about.

To me it sounds like you want change to how healers and their abilities work in general, which is fine and dandy I suppose but has little relevance here since that's something beyond our reach, so we have to make do with what we have.

We can't do anything about how abilities work since we aren't SE, but we certainly can find the most efficient way to use them, which is one of those points we are trying to drive through.

Not it's not, player feedback matters.
It's actually a much more viable way of action than trying to find all those no DPS healer and telling them to stop. As I said, that's on of the reason those forum are up to begin with. If you think that a better healer kit would be better for the game you it's the official place to talk about it. They even encouraged it at the start of SB.

This exactly why I keep answering here. Because actual optimisation of the current healer playstyle is pointless when the current healer playstyle is the problem.

[Miste]

It's a shame you don't remember telling me my posts would have no effect in the game, here :

Because that's the only moment in this whole thread someone actually answered to what I was talking about.

I do remember that, problem is you don't understand what I was saying.

That comment is just the truth of the matter. The only thing we all can do (including you) is post suggestions and discuss things.

SE is the only one with the power to actually change the game design; that is just a fact.

I never said your posts would not have any affect on the game. So you are misunderstanding me again. I am saying that no matter what topic or what people post on the forums it is out of our control if SE listens or not. I never said we shouldn't try and I never said you shouldn't try.

I am not telling you that your posts are pointless, you seem to have misunderstood that. I just meant that our influence is limited and SE needs to take action which we cannot force SE to change the game design. They will either listen or they won't and that is out of our control.

It has nothing to do with your opinions, just a fact about our situation as a whole. We all post, but SE is the only one that can take action so it is completely out of our control at that point if they decide to listen or not.

This thread wasn't created to discuss changing the game design...so the only thing I can suggest to you is that if you want certain changes then create a topic and post your ideas. That would be a better way to spread your ideas around because in this thread it is just getting buried in multiple pages instead of your ideas being on the first page with a proper topic title.

This exactly why I keep answering here. Because actual optimisation of the current healer playstyle is pointless when the current healer playstyle is the problem.

By the way....optimization of the current healer play style isn't pointless. It's just your opinion that it is. I don't share that opinion, sorry.

Since the game exists and is being played right now in its current form then the current optimization of the healer play style is still relevant and valid until such a day where the game design changes for healers. Since no one is sure if such a day will ever come then no it is not pointless.

I mean I find it kind of confusing you seem affronted that you 'thought' I told you your posts were pointless (when I didn't), yet you constantly tell the rest of us all our opinions are pointless. You've been flinging that around for quite a few pages already.

[SilentVoice]

ok, can we just answer the OP thread with that most people don't DPS is because game design isn't appealing to the players and just close the thread then? oh wait, i am sure many of you think that design is just fine, because you go by it and feel just fine, while other simply don't
i mean seriously you are so defending the idea of healer being a part-time DPS, while pointing out at things, that only SE can change design and your influence as players is limited. which one is it then? are you fine with current design and don't think it should be changed (which leads to the point where such posts as of how to improve efficiency above can only be considered as hypocrisy) or you actually oppose the idea and want the concept changed so it appeals players? i mean, this is certainly a problem, like i said, such posts are growing, the rants are even in novice network, i mean what is the actual hell? does it needs a boycott or a rebellion?