What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Vyriah]

Hate to burst your bubble, but since we have little to no control over the design of the game...why exactly do you expect us to be able to improve the game in ways that are outside our control?

I don't care if you think it's pointless, I'm gonna do it anyway and even if only some of them listen then it was a still a success anyway. So you might as well give up on that.

You answer your own question.

Watching for player feedback is pretty common nowdays, especially for online games. It's like decisions to add or change something are taken at complete random. Keeping player feedback is a reason to get those forum up in first place. So yes, talking about something on the forum can have a positive impact it the game.

And I told multiple time the problem isn't why some one shouldn't do DPS, it's about why they don't and :

And as already underligned, there's a lot a things that would comfort players in general in to continuing playing that way. There's one healer in dungeon each dungeon, there's few communication between players in them, healers tend to get a lot of commend because they're are healer, the average level is closer to them that the uptime crazy SCH and bad attitude of mostly premade lv gain players will comfort them that what they're doing is right, even if it's standing here doing nothing.

This. Again.
And even then, this shouldn't be such problematic matter. I have been leveling my BRD lately And I barely ever ended up with non DPS healer. Hard not to notice when healer DPS given the kinda noises healer DPS produce. So it's not like it's such a dramatic concern.

[Miste]

So yes, talking about something on the forum can have a positive impact it the game.

Did you read what I said? Because you are just repeating what I just said.

You said you expect us to improve the game with our threads, but the fact is they might not no matter how much we post. Nothing any of us can do to change that, only SE can. If SE listens, ok, if not, there is not much else we can do except keep posting and discussing.

That's why I said we discuss on the forums...yet you are trying to tell us it is pointless while also saying that discussing on the forums can have positive impact on the game....

Yeah? I know that that is why we discuss things here.

So why are you in here telling us it is pointless then? You are contradicting yourself.

I think there is too much of a language barrier here. I am possibly not understanding you and you are definitely not understanding me.

[Vyriah]

snip

Really ?
If that's the only thing you have to say, I don't really care. I'm not sure what you are trying to do with that kind of sophistic stunt, outside making sure to anyone that doubted it that this discussion have no meaning whatsoever.

Is it fear? Is it a mentality? Is it just poor play? Laziness? That is what the topic is asking.

I have answered that question multiple times, and there's a even a quote of it two message above yours.

[Miste]

Really ?
I'm not sure what you are trying to do with that kind of sophistic stunt, outside making sure to anyone that doubted it that this discussion have no meaning whatsoever.

What sophistic stunt? I did nothing of the sort. All I did was explain why I feel you aren't understanding me and I am not understanding you. When you last replied you just repeated things I said just in different words. So you aren't really discussing what I said....which means your replies get confusing.

I mean I can explain it from my point of view point by point.

You said "How have you improved the game with these threads?" (This question cannot be answered by us because we can only post, SE is the only one able to take action which may or may not happen for any topic on these forums not only healer stuff)

You then also say these posts and threads about healer dps are pointless.

I said that we don't have the power to force improvements to the game. The only influence we can have on the game is using the forums to make suggestions, and discuss things so that is what we do. All we can do is post..it is out of our control if SE ever listens or not.

You say it is pointless to have these discussions on the forums, but then also in the same breath say that the forums can have a positive influence on the game.

That's the reason why I said we post because it can possibly influence the game and the players. The only power we have is to post and make suggestions and discuss and you agree the forums can influence the game, yet you are trying to tell us it is pointless to discuss on the forums about healer dps.

You are contradicting yourself so it is confusing me.

If the discussion has no meaning then why are you here? It must have some meaning to you otherwise you wouldn't waste your time here.

[Vyriah]

snip

It's hard to tell if you're saying that in a good faith, especially after involving "language barrier", to be honest.

I'm not saying that discussion is pointless because antagonizing everyone is just gonna have to opposite effect of what you want. I have already talked about how commen and how easily healers tend to get them just for playing healer will just pick a side and camp their positions. And they will even be more much more adamant on continue their playstyle. Look all the lenght I have to go just to say something that isn't even against healer DPS.
You're the one that was telling me my approach would lead nowhere actually. Even though player feedback was encouraged early into SB. That's even the reason I checked the forum to begin with and it's exactly why I'm here talking about positive re-inforcement and such. DPS got that, why do healers still have those scattered spells kit ?

[Jollyy5]

...

I tried my best to comprehend your stance on this thread, but failed to do so, and I try to learn from my mistakes.

So instead, let me dial all the way back to the beginning and ask: Why exactly are you here and what are you trying to achieve on this thread?

[Vyriah]

I tried my best to comprehend your stance on this thread, but failed to do so, and I try to learn from my mistakes.

So instead, let me dial all the way back to the beginning and ask: Why exactly are you here and what are you trying to achieve on this thread?

Here :

It's not because healing is too strong that they're not doing DPS, they're not doing DPS because they're scared of the healer responsability. FF XIV is balanced in a way to make healer easier to play to not scare players away from playing them. But doing so they confirm conservatives thinking that doing both DPS and healing is a risk. Also, the actual strengh of the healing spells and how you can use them at your advantage is something you learn with confidence. There's only 1 healer in each party before lv 50, you can't learn from looking at other player to that point if you don't play something else.

The changes arround the SCH concerned core healing gameplay, but not SCH specific gameplay. They modified mana costs and potencies. That means healer are balanced arround exhaution, but that's not exactly the case of most other MP using classes (outside of RDM, but only when they use support spell). It does makes sense and it kinda get the job done, but it doesn't naturally encourage using offensive spell.

Limit healing output by rotations completed by cooldown and linking with damage oriented spell would by a much more elegant solution. If you either reward DPS with more heal or more heal with DPS, anyone is naturally gonna do both. Let's say something stupid : if DB was linked to hitting an ennemy while aero was up instead of lillies, it's not like you will fail to heal if you don't do it but be rewarding if you do (I used this exemple because it was recurring idea in WHM thread, btw). That's just an exemple, I'm not thinking this is actually what should be done, but they need a whole kit that would work arround that kind of though process.

And as already underligned, there's a lot a things that would comfort players in general into continuing playing that way. There's one healer in dungeon each dungeon, there's few communication between players in them, healers tend to get a lot of commend because they're are healer, the average level is closer to them that the uptime crazy SCH and bad attitude of mostly premade lv gain players will comfort them that what they're doing is right, even if it's standing here doing nothing.

Watching for player feedback is pretty common nowdays, especially for online games. It's like decisions to add or change something are taken at complete random. Keeping player feedback is a reason to get those forum up in first place. So yes, talking about something on the forum can have a positive impact it the game.

Even though player feedback was encouraged early into SB. That's even the reason I checked the forum to begin with and it's exactly why I'm here talking about positive re-inforcement and such. DPS got that, why do healers still have those scattered spells kit ?

But strangely, now it's all about not understanding my post.
Like, I don't, if someone just bring language issues after 20 pages of discussion and everyone else just jumped on that (false) pretext to move the goalpost to south pole.

[Miste]

It's hard to tell if you're saying that in a good faith, especially after involving "language barrier", to be honest.

I'm going by your post I read from a few pages back where you said English is not your mother tongue so it may contribute to confusion for me and also for you.

Don't get me wrong though your English is quite good, just sometimes I find it hard to understand what you are saying since it isn't 100% fluent. Just being honest with you. I am not trying to be rude or malicious.

I'm not saying that discussion is pointless because antagonizing everyone is just gonna have to opposite effect of what you want. I have already talked about how commen and how easily healers tend to get them just for playing healer will just pick a side and camp their positions. And they will even be more much more adamant on continue their playstyle. Look all the lenght I have to go just to say something that isn't even against healer DPS.

Where am I antagonizing anyone though? I am explaining that healers should want to help their groups as much as they are capable of. The fact is there are some players who are lazy and that goes for any role. The ones who are actually factually being lazy are the ones we have issue with.

We don't always know which ones are being lazy, but they are out there and there are some easy indicators for who is being lazy. I've had some healers admit to the party "if you expect me to DPS then don't bother I'm too lazy to do that". It's a real quote from a healer I had in a group once. So in other words they COULD do more to help their party, but are simply too lazy to bother...no one wants that kind of person in their group.

Where did I ever say you were against healer dps? I never said that. I was only trying to say that in general our message to healers about using their whole kit is a good message and not to be misunderstood as something derisive. Yes, people get frustrated sometimes, but when you discuss on the forums it is different than going into the game and calling healers out personally.

Some people come into these threads making very ridiculous defense of healers who basically stand or jump around doing nothing when there is nothing to heal. That is why it is called Princess Healer because some healers don't DPS on principle sort of like "oh I could help you, I know how to help you, but I won't" and the people who defend them make it even worse because that is such a terrible attitude to have.

If ANY other role did that they would be called out on it and not defended. If everyone had that kind of mentality people wouldn't be helping each other. We should WANT to help each other.

You're the one that was telling me my approach would lead nowhere actually.

Where did I say that? I think you are misunderstanding me.

[Vyriah]

Snip.

And... all I said was that better healer kit would be good for everyone ?
If what you're saying isn't adressed to me, why is everyone answering me those thing about no DPS-healer ? It's a shame you don't remember telling me my posts would have no effect in the game, here :

Hate to burst your bubble, but since we have little to no control over the design of the game...why exactly do you expect us to be able to improve the game in ways that are outside our control?

Because that's the only moment in this whole thread someone actualThere, that's what I talk about. Instead of talking about some player into the game that don't play as you want them to, you could use this kind of thread as a way to promote changes in the game. Because right now, the game seem much likely to make healers artificially busy with things like asking them move arround, having more frequent raid damage or worse, those random statut like ExDeath's doom or Shinryu paralysis. That sure make healing busier but is it really the point ?

SB job up date was heavily designed arround secondary ressources, with those job jauge. They didn't do this at random, it's because they know about things like positive re-inforcement, the idea that you encourage what you want players to do instead of punishing what you don't want them to do. If player asked for that kind of change, it would be more likely for them to happen.ly answered to what I was talking about.

To me it sounds like you want change to how healers and their abilities work in general, which is fine and dandy I suppose but has little relevance here since that's something beyond our reach, so we have to make do with what we have.

We can't do anything about how abilities work since we aren't SE, but we certainly can find the most efficient way to use them, which is one of those points we are trying to drive through.

Not it's not, player feedback matters.
It's actually a much more viable way of action than trying to find all those no DPS healer and telling them to stop. As I said, that's on of the reason those forum are up to begin with. If you think that a better healer kit would be better for the game you it's the official place to talk about it. They even encouraged it at the start of SB.

This exactly why I keep answering here. Because actual optimisation of the current healer playstyle is pointless when the current healer playstyle is the problem.