Enfeeble Spells and Seperating White and Black Mage.

[Viridiana]

There are plenty of whm only damage spells without watering both mages to grey mages. Anyone who has played a ff title would know this.

Anyone who's played more than FFXI would know that BLM gets Fire/Ice/Lightning, and that's about it.

[grandm]

There are plenty of whm only damage spells without watering both mages to grey mages. Anyone who has played a ff title would know this.

class can be used for solo play but jobs will be only for party play, now nobody really knows what this means for the set up for a job, but it does suggest that we will lose some abilities. i.e. if a CON became WHM but didn't lose its nukes, it could still solo. so keeping this in mind i think a white mage will look white not grey. and a black mage will look black. not grey

[kwestro]

Enfeebles like poison, bio, & dia are worthless. the accuracy is so low that it's not even worth equipping. And I have never seen anyone using enfeebles on a boss with all the parties I have been in. Good riddance to the enfeebles, they're trash, and they should be left out of the game for now.

[darkstarpoet1]

I'd rather them take the enfeebles, give them back later when they're more useful. For the first 8 months of the game the only enfeeble I used was poison, and maybe dia bio. Right now, I'm using bio II/Dia II MAYBE! and always poison II. Paralyze and slow, had a use, but were not useful. Why have a bunch of useless spells no one is dedicated to making better, I played this game as a thm to be a master enfeebler, the enfeebles sucked. I'd rather see them gone, then to have to keep being so sad on the inside everytime I see one of them.

this is spoken like a true horrible mage that would be completely worthless in a high level battle. if you maybe used bio, dia, poisin, drain, siphon mp, absorb attack, and slow you were completely worthless.

[Aion]

Nothing to stop you using a few of your 10 cross-class slots to gain earth and wind spells for your THM/BLM. And besides, they're removing the class potency restriction. The only issue now is the level difference.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post441509

The inverse of that implies that at 50, a level 5 spell from CNJ will work a treat on your THM/BLM... and that particular class is getting the highest Magic Attack Potency.

So the issue isn't really what you're missing on your main class, but what you can use from other classes to compliment and extend your native skill set.

wait, where is this stated? I think i missed it.

[Dreadnought]

just checking my crystal ball for you now, i see something

dev 1 "why give CON any elemental nukes, why not give them all holy nukes, and give all elemental nukes to THM?"
dev 2 " well we could do that but, we only have 15 abilities per class. and to give THM all 6 would restrict what else we could give it"
dev 1 "ah yes, but what if THM users complain they want wind or earth based nukes for certain mobs?"
dev 2 "well all they need to do is use up 2 of the 10 slots allocated for cross class abilities"
dev 1 "oh i see, sounds like you know what your doing, but you do know some ppl will be very upset at these changes"
dev 2 " ppl get up set at everything let the little tro--------

aww the crystal ball has gone cloudy there

stay tuned for more messages from my wonderful crystal ball

first off, those spaces are needed for other extremely useful abilities from other classes such as defense and TP healing abilities as well as a few other buffs.

second, why is 15 abilities the magic number? why is it necessary for every single class to have the exact same amount of abilities? why couldnt we all have 20 abilities?

Third, even if we stayed at 15 abilities, and i decided having X spells work better for my current situation, im still non the less un able to trade out my useless THM/BLM abilities because they are forced on your bar.

my point still stands.

[grandm]

first off, those spaces are needed for other extremely useful abilities from other classes such as defense and TP healing abilities as well as a few other buffs.

second, why is 15 abilities the magic number? why is it necessary for every single class to have the exact same amount of abilities? why couldnt we all have 20 abilities?

Third, even if we stayed at 15 abilities, and i decided having X spells work better for my current situation, im still non the less un able to trade out my useless THM/BLM abilities because they are forced on your bar.

my point still stands.

i guess the only real answer to tho's questions is "because" at the end of the day this is how it was designed i don't know why 15 is the magic number, but it is, and the fact that all classes have 15 as a the magic number would suggest its by design not and accident, if you don't like it design your own game and you can have what ever number you want. as for the 10 slots you have, if you don't want to use 1 or 2 for earth and wind then don't, but i bet when it comes to fighting a boss where they are needed you might want to think again

[Dreadnought]

i guess the only real answer to tho's questions is "because" at the end of the day this is how it was designed i don't know why 15 is the magic number, but it is, and the fact that all classes have 15 as a the magic number would suggest its by design not and accident, if you don't like it design your own game and you can have what ever number you want. as for the 10 slots you have, if you don't want to use 1 or 2 for earth and wind then don't, but i bet when it comes to fighting a boss where they are needed you might want to think again

long explanation short, this is the direction theyre going in. if you dont like it, leave.

well idk just yet. i may fall in love with a melee class.
but as of these Mage reforms, im finding them to be excessively dumbed down and simplistic.

its just absolutely baffling to me that there are people defending such a simplistic and easy battle system. especially when they claim to have taken other MMOs that are coming out into account. well, these other modern MMOs are incorporating a larger veriety of play style options and this does include a larger amount of ability sets.
i dont want my younger siblings to grasp any MMO as quickly as myself, however, it seems this is the direction they are going in.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I guess most people are satisfied with what the are doing to Cjn and Thm.

Fine whatever, Thm/Blm better hit harder than any other DD to make up for our lack of spells now. And others classes better combo every second to keep silence/paralyze up.

Can't wait to see a whole bunch of dead parties because healers want to DD.

[Kinseykinz]

Here's the bigger problem many are having in understanding:

Conjurer is a Conjurer. It is NOT a White mage. Rather it is it's own entity with it's own story, viability and lore. So yes, the class that communes with the elementals should be able to competently cast one or two. Now yes, when you Conjurer hits level 30, you will be given the option to *unlock* the White Mage Job. This again, doesn't magically turn your Conjurer into a White Mage. Instead it is a job that Conjurers can grow into with proper training.

Thaumaturge is a Thaumaturge and NOT a Black Mage. It also has it's own lore and storyline. However like Conjurer and the White Mage Job, when you hit rank 30, you can unlock the Black Mage storyline. But when you are Black Mage you are NOT a Thaumaturge....think of it as a promotion if it helps. Or All Black Mages must be Thaumaturges but not all Thamaturges are Black Mages (after all you could choose to be level 50 THM and never unlock BLM).


Now what this means for the games practicality....

Yes, Conjurers will be able to cast a couple Elemental Spells...BUT you can equip these spells on Thaumaturge if you have your Conjurer leveled.
-'But CNJ spells will be stronger cast by a CNJ then by a BLM' We have yet to see this be true...Black Mage is going to have the highest Magic Attack Potency and MP pool of the whole game. So it is completely possible that Black Mage will do roughly the same or even Better damage when casting a spell originally learned by CNJ. The fact is, until we get to patch 1.21, we don't know.
-'But having to waste cross-class slots on these spells is a waste.' This makes no sense. First off, no one needs all of their Elemental spells on their action bar ever. Nothing in game at the moment in the general world is resistant to more than 1-2 spells. As to the NM's and mobs like Ifrit, well seriously, my CNJ action bar for Ifrit is completely different than what it is for the normal world. So you just set your bar with the 2-4 spells you will be using. Who cares where they came from (CNJ/THM). Lastly, even if THM DID get all the elemental spells, you'd still have the SAME problem with a full action bar... only with the added frustration of having no class abilities that make THM easier to play.

And remember: The Devs have to design a game that a brand new level 1 character can walk in and learn and play. So if Conjurer didn't learn some Offensive Magic and you wanted to make that the very first class you ranked, it'd be almost, if not impossible to solo and rank up and players would get mad and quit. While many of us happen to be rank 50 in a class or 4, new people to the game (who we NEED) aren't. The devs need to make Classes and Jobs work for people from the moment they enter Eorzea for the first time. Those of us playing now just happen to be stuck in a limbo during this redesign.

So yes, I can see why people are upset that all the Elemental Spells aren't on Black Mage, but SE is doing a good job of writing the story/creating the battle system so that when it's done it'll make sense. Wait to complain when patch 1.21 is here and we see a more final version of the battle system and the classes and what they can do. (But expect patch 1.20 to be very rough for rank 30+ characters doing challenging events....since we'll lack the job system)