Just played Final Fantasy XI

[Krotoan]

Although I love FFXI and still do and have lots of happy memories from the 13 years I've been subbed to it (including meeting my boyfriend there! ), I cannot put on rose-tinted glasses when it comes to talking about it, as there was just so many problems with the game I struggled with for so long that I could never ignore or accept as 'just how the game is' now.

Things like the awful EXP loss penalty on death that would even level you backwards if you were unlucky to die while being too close to the previous level still EXP wise (you lost 10% of the total exp needed for the next level when you died, raising gave some of that lost exp back), enemies being ridiculously dangerous even for minor trash mob wildlife like rabbits and yet giving minuscule EXP for it, having to party for everything and even then certain content pretty much restricting party make up to certain Jobs, airships running on tight schedules that all too often would result in players missing one by the skin of their teeth and then having to waste 10+ minutes of real time sitting doing nothing on the dock waiting for the next one, people abusing NIN as a subjob for Utsusemi thinking it made them invincible and then not accepting that it didn't (and thus leaving WHMs like me to have to raise them for their stupidity), no minimap, quest journal that was virtually useless and told you nothing about what you needed to do for a quest (thus forcing you to look online for the (often misleading, incomplete or inaccurate) information, important quests (even main scenario ones) that were locked behind invisible 'fame' counters for each city that forced you to do thousands of pointless fetch quests just to 'build up fame', need I go on?

I have many fond memories as well of adventures with friends and role playing in the different cities. Having fishing outings and enjoying just walking around helping out lowbies in new areas.

Unfortunately what stands out is the last day I played. I spent 3 hours waiting for a leveling party in Juno, (Jeuno?) mostly because I was an undesireable job/race combo of Galka Dark knight and when I finally got a party we wiped twice almost immediately to a caterpillar and someone training the NM in the area to us (mushushu I think). I de-leveled, and could no longer wear all of my AF and had to drop out. I stood there in my home city again.. thought long and hard about how much time I had essentially just wasted.. and quit. Never subbed again.

I've had friends say it's changed, that kind of thing isn't as bad or doesn't happen anymore, but I'm done with that game. I stopped when it wasn't fun for me anymore.

[Clover_Blake]

Things like the awful EXP loss penalty on death that would even level you backwards if you were unlucky to die while being too close to the previous level still EXP wise (you lost 10% of the total exp needed for the next level when you died, raising gave some of that lost exp back), enemies being ridiculously dangerous even for minor trash mob wildlife like rabbits and yet giving minuscule EXP for it, having to party for everything and even then certain content pretty much restricting party make up to certain Jobs, airships running on tight schedules that all too often would result in players missing one by the skin of their teeth and then having to waste 10+ minutes of real time sitting doing nothing on the dock waiting for the next one, people abusing NIN as a subjob for Utsusemi thinking it made them invincible and then not accepting that it didn't (and thus leaving WHMs like me to have to raise them for their stupidity), no minimap, quest journal that was virtually useless and told you nothing about what you needed to do for a quest (thus forcing you to look online for the (often misleading, incomplete or inaccurate) information, important quests (even main scenario ones) that were locked behind invisible 'fame' counters for each city that forced you to do thousands of pointless fetch quests just to 'build up fame', need I go on?

All that sounds like old school MMORPG. There's a reason why I, back in the day, decided to quit MMORPGs for the time being after Ragnarok Online and Lineage II, and why I never bothered trying FFXI (and the very first FFXIV). I just couldn't (and can't) stand old school MMORPGs.

I guess people are seeing FFXI with rose-tinted glasses, as you well say, based on the nice memories they keep from those times. Maybe some people also appreciate being constantly punished with endless grind and penalties (???). I'm personally glad that kind of MMORPG is no longer the norm.

As a side note, I've been curious about FFXI, but only hoping that it had evolved into something more... modern. Or let's say playable.

[Quinna]

I'm right there in nostalgia town with you.

[Ghastly]

The only way to get Yoshida and his team to change the formula is showing them (with numbers, somehow..) that there's a lot of us who want content that's different in 5.0. Hopefully things like Eureka and content like that will be a big focus in 5.0.

But yes a world where the community faces big challenges and comes together is really meaningful and is what made/makes big events like Ixion, world fates, and even fates (when they have meaning through relics) really fun.

[Skivvy]

All that sounds like old school MMORPG. There's a reason why I, back in the day, decided to quit MMORPGs for the time being after Ragnarok Online and Lineage II, and why I never bothered trying FFXI (and the very first FFXIV). I just couldn't (and can't) stand old school MMORPGs.

I guess people are seeing FFXI with rose-tinted glasses, as you well say, based on the nice memories they keep from those times. Maybe some people also appreciate being constantly punished with endless grind and penalties (???). I'm personally glad that kind of MMORPG is no longer the norm.

As a side note, I've been curious about FFXI, but only hoping that it had evolved into something more... modern. Or let's say playable.

It's not fair at all to claim that you dislike "old-school MMOs" with their grinds, and then brush everyone who speaks fondly of XI as simply having rose-tinted glasses. You have a strong bias, and it's quite dismissive of both the game and players.

[stardrifter]

Yea FFXI was/is amazing.

[Brill_]

The story is good, the world is fun and dangerous to explore. I liked a lot of the dungeons had some puzzle to unlock the way forward. The time sinks like waiting for airships was annoying. The two things that made the game great was the depth and the community. The use of the subjob system opened up tyhe way you could play jobs. This provided the ability for strategy against bosses. It was much more fun than memorizing a set pattern and doing group jump rope like in FFXIV. Modern mmo took away that depth. Then the community, people worked together and helped each other. I don't recall seeing half the problems you see in ffxiv around bad dps and lazy players. I'm sure it happened, but most people I played with were accountable for their play. FFXI was not a game designed to be finished in a week. The one thing I never heard a ffxi player say is "i have nothing to do"

[Sebazy]

The time sinks like waiting for airships was annoying. <snip> I don't recall seeing half the problems you see in ffxiv around bad dps and lazy players. I'm sure it happened, but most people I played with were accountable for their play.

In all honesty, I actually miss the travel aspect of FFXI and I probably should have mentioned it in my earlier comment. Hustling a raid's worth of people through to Sky or a HNM was always a build up to an occasion and really set the scene for me. Now it's more about instant gratification, even queueing outside Wineport or such seems to be too much now.

+1 on the second point, frankly I suspect one half of the bad players are still calling out for a raise in Valkurm, and the remainder got chewed up and spat out by Maat

[Krotoan]

Then the community, people worked together and helped each other. I don't recall seeing half the problems you see in ffxiv around bad dps and lazy players. I'm sure it happened, but most people I played with were accountable for their play.

.. Did you ever try to get the rings from that stupid jelly, archers ring I think? Or the kraken club? People were helpful as long as there wasn't an item at stake. I won't say the game wasn't wonderful, but I remember quite a different community.

[princesst3a]

I was just reminiscing on FFXI with my sister the other day, when I went to go raise her in XIV. It made us remember how important raises were in XI since teleporting and such was something people basically could not just do and traveling through the enormous zones to get back to where you were from a home point was often not feasible...and the many times our parties would just camp around her dead character (she was WHM) shouting for rez (VALKURM DUUUNES)

There were definitely a lot of problems with the gameplay, looking back on it now. But for me, I think that was a big part of what made it seem so grand at the same time. Not only did it truly feel enormous and almost like a real world (and thus took a lot of work to get around in), it really encouraged player interaction like no other MMO I have since played. Hell, when I first started playing XIV, I remember being SO DISAPPOINTED that there were no ferry/airship rides. Yes, 15 min waits and all!! I loved them!!! D: (Also "Currents of Time" is one of my all-time favorite FF songs...actually, a lot of XI songs are some of my favorite FF songs)

As a first MMO for tweenage me, that world had a HUGE impact. I had never played a game that was on such a grand scale before. Socializing happened almost every day because it was required to party up with people in your world to do pretty much anything. And as you leveled, just moving on through to different leveling zones felt like such an accomplishment.

Either way, it's absolutely true that the game was not user friendly, and none of those time-consuming systems would work in today's climate. But I really do miss how social it was, as that aspect, plus the first-time grandness of the game world itself, are both things I feel like XIV doesn't quite live up to for me.