Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[Sarevok_Thordin]

Filled out, nice range of reasons and responses.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I think they (the anti parser crowd) already know this. What thet will not admit is that they view even the most neutral of callouts harassment and since SE puts neutral callouts at playstyle differences level, it can't be sanctioned.

So imagine for them, a neutral callout but this time specifically listing what they're doing wrong with hard evidence is even worse.

That's their "parser harassment"- the kind that they can't handle and know they can't get people banned for.

Nopers. The argument has always been about harassment and impact.

Please don't throw gasoline around in a burning house. Plus, this thread is just about Hyomin surveying players interested in the topic. There are other threads you can post in to get a rise out of people.

[Aylis]

Bingo IMO of course. I said it in another post, we don't want to harass you about your numbers. We want you to see your numbers so we DON'T have to say anything to you about them. You'll see them and make the conscious decision to either improve or be excluded.

Yep! I picked the "I want to be held accountable" option for that very reason. Only I can improve me, only others can improve themselves. I like being able to see my own personal growth just as much as I like getting through a dungeon without being called "that player" I don't have any issues at all with my numbers being shown, never had and never will.

[NovaLevossida]

So long as PC players can use unauthorized third party programs to parse with, post pictures / videos with said programs being used, and never suffer consequences for their use (except maybe if they use the data from the program to harass other players which is different from being punished for the use of said programs), it is patently unfair that PS4 players have no option to parse with. Just go ahead and implement the things officialy in-game and enforce the harassment rule.

[Nedkel]

Just like to address these 2 overly used points. The first is a common flawed assumption generally held by those who are anti-parser. I'd like to ask why people think that. If you look at it logically, those who play at a higher level will on average do things in less time with less failures. It stands to reason that those who play better spend less time doing any given thing on this game than those who don't care and think doing more than basic functioning is blasphemous does it not? How do you know this person or most higher tier players "live the game"? I'm not the best in the world by far but I could argue I probably have less game hours spent on this game than most people who started longer than say a year ago and are against parsers. I also am very into things like crafting and gathering (especially fishing) which make up probably about as much of my game time as combat activities. I also have two alts I made to go through the main story again because I enjoy it. I just chose to spend my time efficiently by doing a quick bit of homework and practice when learning something so I don't have to keep struggling the entire time I play.

it sure make a difference in the dungeon
As for the latter, it isn't so black and white as winning or losing. The problem many people have is just a lack of effort to bring the same amount of effort to the table (see: effort not effect) when tackling content as a team. I don't care if people have the best gear nor do I care if they have a perfect rotation and a fight minmaxed to perfection. As I said before I just like seeing that others acknowledge other living beings are in the group with them putting effort in to clear whatever it is we're doing and contribute accordingly. In an expert roulette if people are putting in the basic amount of effort for things to go smoothly it won't take long (healers contributing dps as much as they're comfortable and the situation allows i.e at least DoTs, dps using aoe skills when multiple mobs are pulled, tanks using appropriate defensive cooldowns and maintaining aggro/not cleaving the group while adding in some decent damage). None of these things take very much effort if you take the time to adjust to them over time and they make things significantly smoother in the long run. In a farm party (especially mount farming where drop rates are abysmal) you're required to know the fight and be able to clear it efficiently. The slower each kill is, the less kills you get done in a given amount of time, and the less chance everyone has of obtaining what they're farming for. Not only does it negatively impact others but it you as well. An extreme way of looking at it is that people don't care to put in enough effort to the point they're willing to short themselves as well as others. I still fail to see why this kind of thought is still defended so vehemently much less expressed so widely.

Sorry if this distracts from the point of the thread any. I'm looking forward to the results.

Its about the attitude to the other players and to the game itself, taking it too seriously.
Why does people bother so much about other people performance, i never meet yet anyone who would not use their basic skills when playing the game or their class. It sounds awful when pro-parsers are arguing and point their fingers on the dps'ers who doesnt use aoe or their mechanics, where are they? Of course there will be some, but what part of the playerbase these are making up? Is it every third or fourth person?
The game anyway is not all that hard and according to actual statistics, the average dps for your average joe in your average party hits a little more than 3k on Savage omega deltascape
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...etric=fightdps

It barely hits the requirements as far as i know, but still its a not easy content to do, so why is everybody bragging around trolls who press only 1 button during entire dungeon?
Hell even the difference between the lowest average and the highest average dps is like 20-25% overall, so its not that bad afterall isnt it? That difference could happen for various reasons, somebody could have just a worse day and will output 20% less than usually or is playing on base ps4 with low fps during dungeons and misses the combos or dies in the aoe accidentialy when get lagged.
Some guys are over exaggerating with the problem about dps numbers, like there is a big part of a "baaad players" who intentionally play bad and pulls them into the "elo hell", sure it happens on the hardest content of the game, what did they expected from the DF? Are they using their parser and cant tell how much chances they have to succeed with the bunch of randoms on the hard duty? There is a thing called party finder, use it and dont expect average playerbase to do the hardest content without any problems, thats insane and an insult to the common sense.
On any other occasion average dps numbers sells different story, its not all that bad as some people want to make it looks like they cant do content because of the team performance jumping in between 24-30k dps (on that specific dung), its an excuse.
The difference between best and bad players on average is not an earth and sky difference in this game, to be fair its fair better than in for example ESO where the gear is the real deal almost as much as the character build, and there are 100% differences in dps between highest and low or middle CP level players.

So we could argue by how much official parser would help entire playerbase to perform better, idk maybe by 10% on average? Is it worth longer queue times?
Why longer? Because people will be discouraged to play any duties if there is a chance for them to be harassed only because they played idk redmage that performs worse than other classes? Or a bard? Or just had a bad day, and calling them they sock will potentially push them into leaving the game?
There is an option of just banning those people, and we end up with the lower number of players anyway, so... Why start a fire, if you just dont have to?
Idk about you guys, but i personally choose more friendly community over 10 or ever 20% better performing one.
SE are right, this game doesnt need official combat metric.

[Bongaboi]

Completed on my end, thanks!

[Guulu]

The game anyway is not all that hard and according to actual statistics, the average dps for your average joe in your average party hits a little more than 3k on Savage omega deltascape
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...etric=fightdps

It barely hits the requirements as far as i know, but still its a not easy content to do, so why is everybody bragging around trolls who press only 1 button during entire dungeon?
Hell even the difference between the lowest average and the highest average dps is like 20-25% overall, so its not that bad afterall isnt it? That difference could happen for various reasons, somebody could have just a worse day and will output 20% less than usuallyor is playing on base ps4 with low fps during dungeons and misses the combos or dies in the aoe accidentialy when get lagged.
Some guys are over exaggerating with the problem about dps numbers, like there is a big part of a "baaad players" who intentionally play bad and pulls them into the "elo hell", sure it happens on the hardest content of the game, what did they expected from the DF? Are they using their parser and cant tell how much chances they have to succeed with the bunch of randoms on the hard duty? There is a thing called party finder, use it and dont expect average playerbase to do the hardest content without any problems, thats insane and an insult to the common sense.

First of all, you should not comment on the things you're not familiar with, even you have some statistics brought out. It seems like you haven't reach end-game and done any relevant savage contents yet, at least on this account. Also you are backing up your statement with wrong data and estimation.

That "average party" you mentioned are actually the 50th percentile of all kill parses uploaded in past 2 weeks. I believe the actual 50th percentile of all runs are wipe/enrage. Your "a little more than 3k" for average joe in random party is just straight up wrong. Party DPS doesn't distribute like that at all. A DPS underperforming, a healer doing near 0 dps, a tank in full tank stance with aggro combo only can all easily cause enrage in an average group in prog.

If you are lagging, having a bad day and will put your dps 20% lower or even cause deaths, you definitely should not be raiding especially when progging. You are just wasting other 7 people's time and dragging your body down. 20% lower as a DPS is about equivalent to 1 death, which can lead to enrage in prog.

"over exaggerating with the problem about dps numbers, like there is a big part of a baaad players" Oh dear, little do you know how bad it is in Savage. The thing is some people flat out don't know until get shamed or booted. This is why it is important to at least know your own dps as a new player/raider.

For a moment I thought PF is where people form a party they want and save their time from DF spamming. Silly me. Of course people are entitled to join any party they want and should not get punished at all even if they don't meet the recruitment criteria. There is nothing wrong that some players are pushed away from DF/PF and forced to form/join statics which is hard to find and maintain just because some people decide to have fun and not be responsible.

Savage/Ultimate is where people should at least pick up their slack, not where people make excuse and try to justify their incapability. However, outside of it I genuinely don't care much about what people are doing as long as they are doing their job. Like Tanks hold aggro and use their CDs, healers not letting people die left and right, DPS are not half afk. If you are not new to the game and even manage to fail, I'm not sure if you are really enjoying the game or being half afk doing other stuff.

Edit: post limit

[Vstarstruck]

You responded to a statement I made to another poster.
They said: To which I said:

That's when you responded:

So now that we can see the breadcrumbs let's analyze it. You were implying that WoW was more toxic, to which I offered a dozen or so albeit anecdotal responses demonstrating that I experience more toxicity in FF14 than WoW and explained the reasoning for it.

So yes, in essence, strictly speaking from my own experience, parsers have led to a much better gaming experience for me, across MULTIPLE MMOs, not just one, in over a decade of gaming.



I don't know their budget. What I do know is that they definitely have a lot of dev staff (as was evidenced in a very thorough reddit post that showed FF14 had the largest modern MMO dev team). I can only assume that based on the size of the dev team, that they probably have enough GM's to handle the requests as well. There's unfortunately no way to know for sure.



What do you mean "living this game" slow down or give a break? I play on average 3 hours a week... How much do YOU play?



Because the only reason I got this good and learned the job was because of the parser. God knows where I'd be without it, or where the community would be without the guides created via hours of testing and tuning with parsers.

You play in a closed group with high end skill, of course you are not going to see the common or majority. That should have been implied when I said your post was not responding to me, you are basically explaining why you do not see parser harassment and has nothing to do with what I was saying. I even seen parsar toxicity in FFXIV.

For WoW, I seen parser harassment and even kick abuse because they removed my sister out of some starter raid using RF, we were both new but her HPS was a bit lower because her being monk healer. thinking parser harassment is an outlier is rofl worthy. Seeing it happens even in FFXIV when they blatantly tell you it violates the tos should show you how the general community will act like with an official public one.

The fact they do not allow it is because this very reason. Isn't there some clip with yoshi-P walking off the stage when a parser question was asked again? Him walking off the stage and keep saying no is more then "anecdotal response" Just because you or me or other posters here do not act like the common majority, holds no barring how the common majority will act.

[Legion88]

Isn't there some clip with yoshi-P walking off the stage when a parser question was asked again? Him walking off the strange and keep saying no is more then "anecdotal response"

It's also his statement in the LL before SB that the skill gap between the average player and the mid- to hardcore player is extremly high and the job adjustments are part of the agenda to close the gap and as long as the gap is as high as now he wont add a parser or something in the line of this.

[Sylvina]

I feel like I need to reiterate that the survey is incomplete. I am pro parser with the obvious caveat that only YOUR performance be displayed to you, not anyone elses in game. For personal improvement, a parser is a valuable tool. for anything else it will be abused and we've seen it happen in other games like WoW.