Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[HoodRat]

I bought a potion on wow, well friend gave it to me to see if I wanted to play with them. Yet to see it happen that I get called out, haven't seen anyone call out anyone in savage or extremes (yet their dps is like below tanks or on pair with them). Rarely happens, so since people say it happens often, I must be blind, so please be kind and share those proofs.

I have seen parser harassment (with ffxiv, haven't played wow), mostly outside the game though. However I believe every single case was justified, as in Person A starts talking shit and then Person B slams Person A with the parser results. There was also that one time on the Balance discord where that drg on Leviathan was bragging about their echo logs and said something about Roxa Claire, so Roxa gets on and just goes ham. That was pretty funny.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Hi Hyomin! Just saw this post. Not feeling well at the moment but I'll take the survey for you as soon as possible.

/hug

[HyoMinPark]

Hi Hyomin! Just saw this post. Not feeling well at the moment but I'll take the survey for you as soon as possible.

/hug

Appreciate it Kacho! Please feel better soon! ^^ Survey isn’t going anywhere for 2 weeks so just focus on your health for now. ^^

[Kacho_Nacho]

Appreciate it Kacho! Please feel better soon! ^^ Survey isn’t going anywhere for 2 weeks so just focus on your health for now. ^^

You are welcome and thank you very much! I was pain-free enough to complete the survey today. ^^

I'm looking forward to the results of your survey and what conclusions you draw from it. It should lead to an interesting discussion on the subject.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Play wow, or hell it even happens in this game time to time even though it is supposed to be "not allowed"

Cross post I made in a different thread:

Hi former top 20 US WoW raider here. I have played WoW on and off for just about 14 years now. I can count on 1 hand (less than 5 incidents of actual toxicity). Want to know why? Because at the level I play at, people hold themselves accountable. There's no need to "bash" anyone because we don't make excuses for our mistakes. We simply own them and fix them if able.

I can pick and choose players to play with that fit my skill. WoW doesn't force me to play with people who have no business being in my groups. It's why when people praise the FF14 community it's hard for me to see why.

• I spend more time getting called names for playing well
• Carrying players who were near AFK (pressing a button every 9-12s)
• Watching people talk trash based on flat out inaccurate assumptions (so and so you're not doing any DPS I am watching you, meanwhile that person is only 30 DPS behind them, and the HEALER IS ABOVE BOTH, and I the tank am above all 3...
• Being reported for asking a healer to DPS (they did EXACTLY 0 dps). They were active less than 18% of the entire dungeon. Imagine if I a tank or a DPS was only active 18% of a dungeon, how much fun would YOU be having?
• Being told I should have been aborted for ASKING if the other tank wanted some tips, not giving tips, merely asking if they were interested.
• Kicked from an FC because I said that Lakshmi EX was disappointing as an EX primal.
• Top DPS in Rabanastre on 2 bosses as a tank, (no bonuses in my alliance, can't speak for others).
• 2 back to back runs of O3N where I was top DPS as tank by a staggering margin, neither run had bonus. Fun fact, DIDN'T GET ANY LOOT EITHER.

Anecdotal sure, but it's more experiences JUST off the top of my head in the past few years of playing, vs. over a decade in WoW.

[Vstarstruck]

Cross post I made in a different thread:

Hi former top 20 US WoW raider here. I have played WoW on and off for just about 14 years now. I can count on 1 hand (less than 5 incidents of actual toxicity). Want to know why? Because at the level I play at, people hold themselves accountable. There's no need to "bash" anyone because we don't make excuses for our mistakes. We simply own them and fix them if able.

I can pick and choose players to play with that fit my skill. WoW doesn't force me to play with people who have no business being in my groups. It's why when people praise the FF14 community it's hard for me to see why.

• I spend more time getting called names for playing well
• Carrying players who were near AFK (pressing a button every 9-12s)
• Watching people talk trash based on flat out inaccurate assumptions (so and so you're not doing any DPS I am watching you, meanwhile that person is only 30 DPS behind them, and the HEALER IS ABOVE BOTH, and I the tank am above all 3...
• Being reported for asking a healer to DPS (they did EXACTLY 0 dps). They were active less than 18% of the entire dungeon. Imagine if I a tank or a DPS was only active 18% of a dungeon, how much fun would YOU be having?
• Being told I should have been aborted for ASKING if the other tank wanted some tips, not giving tips, merely asking if they were interested.
• Kicked from an FC because I said that Lakshmi EX was disappointing as an EX primal.
• Top DPS in Rabanastre on 2 bosses as a tank, (no bonuses in my alliance, can't speak for others).
• 2 back to back runs of O3N where I was top DPS as tank by a staggering margin, neither run had bonus. Fun fact, DIDN'T GET ANY LOOT EITHER.

Anecdotal sure, but it's more experiences JUST off the top of my head in the past few years of playing, vs. over a decade in WoW.

So you just admitted why you do not see the mass toxicity because of Parsers ? I really do not get the point of your post, sorry.

[Cold_Raven]

I did your survey.
I am pro-parser.

I wish we could get a full parser (full party, all instances), but I understand the hesitations SE management has about potential harassment.

Personally, I think the tools in place (block/report) would work fine for any harassment that comes up due to a full parser. But I'm not sure if SE management is convinced. I don't know why.

Taking that into account, here's my middle-of-the-fence proposal:

A personal parser that compares you to everyone else.
That is, you get to see your data, all the time. But you also get to see how you did compared to others.

How to do this without giving all the data that can lead to easy harassment issues?
Give the personal data immediately (ongoing through the instance, if desired.)
But only give the comparison-to-others data at the end of the instance.

Also... don't include others in your party in the comparison-to-others data.
The comparison-to-others data should only be historical data obtained from previously-ran instances.

This way you get to see how do. And you also get to see how you fall "in the pack" with the community.
What you don't get is any specific data on how others are doing. Therefore, you can't harass them about something you don't get to see.

It's the best compromise I can think of. But, personally, I don't think a compromise is necessary. I think FF14 would do fine with a full blown, full access in-game parser accompanied with it's current usage of block/report harassment control. GMs have always been very quick, and very responsive for any issues I've had while playing.

[Vstarstruck]

I did your survey.
I am pro-parser.
I wish we could get a full parser (full party, all instances), but I understand the hesitations SE management has about potential harassment.

Personally, I think the tools in place (block/report) would work fine for any harassment that comes up due to a full parser. But I'm not sure if SE management is convinced. I don't know why.

Taking that into account, here's my middle-of-the-fence proposal:

A personal parser that compares you to everyone else.
That is, you get to see your data, all the time. But you also get to see how you did compared to others.

How to do this without giving all the data that can lead to easy harassment issues?
Give the personal data immediately (ongoing through the instance, if desired.)
But only give the comparison-to-others data at the end of the instance.

Also... don't include others in your party in the comparison-to-others data.
The comparison-to-others data should only be historical data obtained from previously-ran instances.

This way you get to see how do. And you also get to see how you fall "in the pack" with the community.
What you don't get is any specific data on how others are doing. Therefore, you can't harass them about something you don't get to see.

It's the best compromise I can think of. But, personally, I don't think a compromise is necessary. I think FF14 would do fine with a full blown, full access in-game parser accompanied with it's current usage of block/report harassment control. GMs have always been very quick, and very responsive for any issues I've had while playing.

Liked your post and sorry if I sound like a broken record to some. The big thing I feel now, after connecting the dots sort of speak, is it is possible they feel would lead to a lot of reports to deal with. If they have a limited size GM staff, it means they need more GMs. I feel this game has a really small budget, leading them to design measures to limit GM calls and limit harassment.

Anyways, ya I liked what ya said

[Nedkel]

Cross post I made in a different thread:

Hi former top 20 US WoW raider here. I have played WoW on and off for just about 14 years now. I can count on 1 hand (less than 5 incidents of actual toxicity). Want to know why? Because at the level I play at, people hold themselves accountable. There's no need to "bash" anyone because we don't make excuses for our mistakes. We simply own them and fix them if able.

I can pick and choose players to play with that fit my skill. WoW doesn't force me to play with people who have no business being in my groups. It's why when people praise the FF14 community it's hard for me to see why.

• I spend more time getting called names for playing well
• Carrying players who were near AFK (pressing a button every 9-12s)
• Watching people talk trash based on flat out inaccurate assumptions (so and so you're not doing any DPS I am watching you, meanwhile that person is only 30 DPS behind them, and the HEALER IS ABOVE BOTH, and I the tank am above all 3...
• Being reported for asking a healer to DPS (they did EXACTLY 0 dps). They were active less than 18% of the entire dungeon. Imagine if I a tank or a DPS was only active 18% of a dungeon, how much fun would YOU be having?
• Being told I should have been aborted for ASKING if the other tank wanted some tips, not giving tips, merely asking if they were interested.
• Kicked from an FC because I said that Lakshmi EX was disappointing as an EX primal.
• Top DPS in Rabanastre on 2 bosses as a tank, (no bonuses in my alliance, can't speak for others).
• 2 back to back runs of O3N where I was top DPS as tank by a staggering margin, neither run had bonus. Fun fact, DIDN'T GET ANY LOOT EITHER.

Anecdotal sure, but it's more experiences JUST off the top of my head in the past few years of playing, vs. over a decade in WoW.

You are living this game, slow down bud or give a mmorpg a break.
Thats why the parsers should never be supported by the SE, it develops a bad habbit on players by looking over everyone and seek for excuses on them.
Dont get me wrong, i know where are you coming from, since its game based on coop and it gets annoying if you want to get things get sorted, but it will never be, but still thats killing the game for you and only you. You should be laughing at these situations you experienced, not getting mad.
Last game my party have been wiped on trial 4 times, before i decided to show them what they should do, and that was hilarious.
Just uinstall the addon and play the game as it is, why should you feel sorry for the bad/underperforming players when you are carrying them? If you are doing well enough and know your job, why do you even need a parser? If that would happen to me, i would be proud of myself i did something on my own, and recommendations would seal it even stronger, because i know and they know who was the best.
Its just a PVE, there is no ranking you are losing if you finish duty 10 min later.

[F_Maximillian]

You are living this game, slow down bud or give a mmorpg a break.

Its just a PVE, there is no ranking you are losing if you finish duty 10 min later.

Just like to address these 2 overly used points. The first is a common flawed assumption generally held by those who are anti-parser. I'd like to ask why people think that. If you look at it logically, those who play at a higher level will on average do things in less time with less failures. It stands to reason that those who play better spend less time doing any given thing on this game than those who don't care and think doing more than basic functioning is blasphemous does it not? How do you know this person or most higher tier players "live the game"? I'm not the best in the world by far but I could argue I probably have less game hours spent on this game than most people who started longer than say a year ago and are against parsers. I also am very into things like crafting and gathering (especially fishing) which make up probably about as much of my game time as combat activities. I also have two alts I made to go through the main story again because I enjoy it. I just chose to spend my time efficiently by doing a quick bit of homework and practice when learning something so I don't have to keep struggling the entire time I play.

As for the latter, it isn't so black and white as winning or losing. The problem many people have is just a lack of effort to bring the same amount of effort to the table (see: effort not effect) when tackling content as a team. I don't care if people have the best gear nor do I care if they have a perfect rotation and a fight minmaxed to perfection. As I said before I just like seeing that others acknowledge other living beings are in the group with them putting effort in to clear whatever it is we're doing and contribute accordingly. In an expert roulette if people are putting in the basic amount of effort for things to go smoothly it won't take long (healers contributing dps as much as they're comfortable and the situation allows i.e at least DoTs, dps using aoe skills when multiple mobs are pulled, tanks using appropriate defensive cooldowns and maintaining aggro/not cleaving the group while adding in some decent damage). None of these things take very much effort if you take the time to adjust to them over time and they make things significantly smoother in the long run. In a farm party (especially mount farming where drop rates are abysmal) you're required to know the fight and be able to clear it efficiently. The slower each kill is, the less kills you get done in a given amount of time, and the less chance everyone has of obtaining what they're farming for. Not only does it negatively impact others but it you as well. An extreme way of looking at it is that people don't care to put in enough effort to the point they're willing to short themselves as well as others. I still fail to see why this kind of thought is still defended so vehemently much less expressed so widely.

Sorry if this distracts from the point of the thread any. I'm looking forward to the results.