Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
There are other ways to push yourself towards excellence, for those that seek it. Even on the old system, pvp and pve were so different the knowledge transfer wasn't that great. Attitudes to push yourself maybe, but you're deluding yourself if you think playing pre-4.0 pvp was good way to practice for pve. And it was more of a side mention than an emphasis anyways.

The changes mean that pvp isn't gated by 100+ hours of unrelated quest content and you're not juggling 40-odd abilities. Whether or not you like that is your call, but I certainly understand why SE wasn't happy with it before...
I'd like to give this my full attention in a separate post from the previous one. You say pre-4.0 PvP wasn't good practice for PvE, and I'll agree, they're different enough, but! Before 4.0, you were using the same kit from max level in both. And with perhaps 2 notable exceptions between 2 very different jobs, everything worked just the same. Some things actually held more relevance and use in PvP. And now? I can safely say for as "confusing" as MCH may seem to people, anyone leveling is NOT going to learn how to properly play a PvE MCH from PvP. Not when Hot Shot values are different, the majority of what comprises the kit from 30-60 pretty much isn't there, and when the shot combo is linear in PvP where in PvE it's not.

Attitude to push yourself IS good - look at all the threads in General Discussion lamenting players that perform poorly, and either don't know or don't care. Beyond that, I've said it many times, if anyone was bad at PvP then, hell, if they're bad now, that's all on them for failure to learn. SE literally revamped everything to make it easier, and yet you still get people that just do it wrong. Except now, there's far less punishment in doing it wrong. You know, like when one-shot mechanics don't one-shot anymore. . . then when the same mechanic with a new coat of paint turns up later AS a one shot, people can't handle it. . . Remember T6's Blighted Bouquet? How about when they called it Acceleration Bomb in Weeping City? The old community made efforts to help people learn. PvPaissa exists. Various discords exist. The Wolf Pup's Den exists. Hell, I've written 2 Shatter guides on this forum itself, sharing what I know and learned through experience. . . Experience that many others were perhaps too busy avoiding PvP and buying into the misconceptions of it to achieve as well. And even in sharing that knowledge/experience, even where it's relevant to 4.0 - say, MCH basics as the job plays in PvP now - we still have pre-loading MCHs before matches.

I don't think opening PvP up to people leveling was bad, and I've said that many places here. I'm not happy that it's attracted players that are only in it to level and have no will to learn or improve, and I'm sure if say, Savage raiding were opened up to the same, many Savage raiders would feel the same. I understand what SE was TRYING to do. But it's how they did it and what it cost to make it happen that we have issue with. If I had a solid answer for it, I'd be submitting a resume to SE today, but I don't. All I can do is speak up, loudly, AS one of the dedicated players from before. Not unlike all the disappointed BRDs of 3.x. Does that help clarify things?