SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[Tegernako]

yep, and WAR is not overpowered like the WAR in heavensward. I think the job is in a good spot right now. DRK needs more atention than WAR

CHANGING MULTIPLE JOBS FOR THE BETTER ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE THINGS. IT'S PERFECTLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE/WORK ON A LOT OF CHANGES AT ONCE.

Even when I made my big warrior thread I often talked about DRK and at no point did I ever say that SE should only focus into helping warrior first!

Ticks me off to see people try to downplay issues for others just because they "think" everything is "okay". I never said SE shouldn't work on DRG, or SMN, or WHM, or even jobs like Bard just because I felt warrior was trash and unfun to play. Don't know what is preventing you from giving the same space to balancing WAR. Why do they have to ignore all the current issues with the class to focus on DRK? They do have more then a single person working on job balance at SE correct?

[shao32]

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you cant blame ppl for being upset about this after all the love SE give to WAR all this patchs.
current WAR status is fine and the job itself dont have the fault ppl cant manage such easy judgment in combat, several jobs needs a lot more help that WAR Qol adjustment and many consider WAR need to be one of the last jobs in being focus now, but SE keep give you lolipops and hugs with "oh my poor WAR, dont worry we are with you" in every interview/live letter when the rest stay in a corner under the rain and dont even being notice.

so i hope you understand ppl dont want to hear about WAR sugestions more bcs looks like WARs only need 1 post and SE run to they aid ignoring the hundred DRK complaing to end buffing you more and leave us alone with our sorrow.

sure PPL will be more open to hear WAR suggestions if SE care to adress DRK problems but looks like its sooooooooooooooooooooooo hard say "DRKs dont worry we are looking on it"

[Chrono_Rising]

CHANGING MULTIPLE JOBS FOR THE BETTER ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE THINGS. IT'S PERFECTLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE/WORK ON A LOT OF CHANGES AT ONCE.

Even when I made my big warrior thread I often talked about DRK and at no point did I ever say that SE should only focus into helping warrior first!

Ticks me off to see people try to downplay issues for others just because they "think" everything is "okay". I never said SE shouldn't work on DRG, or SMN, or WHM, or even jobs like Bard just because I felt warrior was trash and unfun to play. Don't know what is preventing you from giving the same space to balancing WAR. Why do they have to ignore all the current issues with the class to focus on DRK? They do have more then a single person working on job balance at SE correct?

I think alot of the issue people have is this: What is so difficult on warrior that they need a change? Looking at the forums and interviews nothing has really been struck as a common theme, Warriors don't even seem to be requesting changes yet they are coming. If anything people seem to think its small issues, in which case why mention it at all? Why not give some attention to a class which has been asking for buffs since launch? Such as:
Monk
Scholar
Dark Knight

What is so wrong with a meta class that it is getting called out in live letters for attention?

[Lina_Slayer]

I really think it has to do with some future boss mechanic it is the only explanation for a Warrior change, maybe there is a tankbuster that is wise to invul, but the boss goes untargetable before using it preventing Holmgang to be used, though if it was the case it seems wiser to just change the boss so I really don't know what the devs are thinking...

[Aana]

I really think it has to do with some future boss mechanic it is the only explanation for a Warrior change, maybe there is a tankbuster that is wise to invul, but the boss goes untargetable before using it preventing Holmgang to be used, though if it was the case it seems wiser to just change the boss so I really don't know what the devs are thinking...

I hope its something practical along those lines. But playing their MMOs for the last 14 years doesn't exactly inspire great faith in me when it comes to things like this. They have routinely used a blunt instruments over precise ones to address problems. Big pendulum swings. I'm to jaded to be optimistic at this point.

However, credit where credit is due. 14 is MUCH better about balance than XI (and most MMOs for that matter) ever was. For all our whining and moaning, all classes actually are viable to play (Viable. Not optimal. Lern Engrish) in this game which is a frequently overlooked kudos. Even in this case, tanks are the closest they have been since they added a 3rd tank. Just don't screw it up now

[Namingwayfinder]

Spent the weekend finishing up leveling my pally job. Couldn't jump back to warrior fast enough when I was done. I hate as a Paladin having to choose between self-healing and personal dps and I like fell cleave better than holy spirit. Both jobs have the same number of combos and OGC, so there's no added complexity there. I guess I just prefer looking after myself, and smashing stuff with an axe. Paladins just don't do it for me.

@Namingway Personally, I'd take innerbeast over shelltron. Shelltron's a one-and-done. Way too easy to squander, compared to beast.

I completely agree, Inner Beast does feel a lot better than Sheltron, even if the buff is only ~5 seconds.

Also, Tegernako, what is cut and dry about WAR is that, generally speaking, you know what you're going to be doing next. Unless you get very creative, or you're learning a fight, you will pretty much always do the same things. As OT, you get your damage increase buff, then Storm's Path unless you need to rotate tanks or share a tankbuster and need CDs or something, you Fell Cleave when you get the chance unless you're saving for that 100 beast gauge just in case you need to pop Defiance/Inner Beast (If you're unsure if you can take a tankbuster or soemthing). Other than that, you time Berserk with your other buffs and your 6 Fell Cleave/Upheaval/Onslaught window and you have WAR in a nutshell, barring defensive CD's or slipups. All in all, pretty cut and dry, WAR is almost more about priority actions than situational rotation.

[Tegernako]

you cant blame ppl for being upset about this after all the love SE give to WAR all this patchs.
current WAR status is fine and the job itself dont have the fault ppl cant manage such easy judgment in combat, several jobs needs a lot more help that WAR Qol adjustment and many consider WAR need to be one of the last jobs in being focus now, but SE keep give you lolipops and hugs with "oh my poor WAR, dont worry we are with you" in every interview/live letter when the rest stay in a corner under the rain and dont even being notice.

so i hope you understand ppl dont want to hear about WAR sugestions more bcs looks like WARs only need 1 post and SE run to they aid ignoring the hundred DRK complaing to end buffing you more and leave us alone with our sorrow.

sure PPL will be more open to hear WAR suggestions if SE care to adress DRK problems but looks like its sooooooooooooooooooooooo hard say "DRKs dont worry we are looking on it"

I certainly can blame them for their own words and actions. Plenty of people were able to not be petty and insulting beforehand, nothing is forcing you to act the way you do.

Nowhere have I ever said I don't understand why people are frustrated. Do you think I only play one job? My two mains are WAR and DRK. I am just as invested in good changes for DRK as you all are. I just don't need to take out my frustrations on other players. Sure I may call out hypocrisy but I don't think bringing down PLD players will change things for the better, so I don't do that.

I think alot of the issue people have is this: What is so difficult on warrior that they need a change? Looking at the forums and interviews nothing has really been struck as a common theme, Warriors don't even seem to be requesting changes yet they are coming. If anything people seem to think its small issues, in which case why mention it at all? Why not give some attention to a class which has been asking for buffs since launch? Such as:
Monk
Scholar
Dark Knight

What is so wrong with a meta class that it is getting called out in live letters for attention?

Rotation and timing is something I see a lot. Which ties into skills like inner release or unchained. There was that whole xeno interview that went into a lot of the issues with the job.

And as I've said a thousand times, there is nothing wrong with asking for changes or for more information. But there is something wrong with dragging down others, acting as if no other job can get changes just because they are "better off", and just in general being rude to people who would still like to see changes to their job. Trying to downplay issues people do have simply because "we're better off" is equally rude as someone saying you shouldn't complain about DRK just because "it's got a bunch of world firsts".

It's condescending and rude to have all of your issues shoved aside simply because success has been found is it not? So don't do the same to other jobs please.

I completely agree, Inner Beast does feel a lot better than Sheltron, even if the buff is only ~5 seconds.

Also, Tegernako, what is cut and dry about WAR is that, generally speaking, you know what you're going to be doing next. Unless you get very creative, or you're learning a fight, you will pretty much always do the same things. As OT, you get your damage increase buff, then Storm's Path unless you need to rotate tanks or share a tankbuster and need CDs or something, you Fell Cleave when you get the chance unless you're saving for that 100 beast gauge just in case you need to pop Defiance/Inner Beast (If you're unsure if you can take a tankbuster or soemthing). Other than that, you time Berserk with your other buffs and your 6 Fell Cleave/Upheaval/Onslaught window and you have WAR in a nutshell, barring defensive CD's or slipups. All in all, pretty cut and dry, WAR is almost more about priority actions than situational rotation.

That sounds like every other tank if you describe it in such bare bone terms.

But no other tank is as reliant on perfect timing and perfect knowledge in a fight as WAR IF they want to be optimal. You have to work two, three times as hard to keep up that "higher DPS".

[Chrono_Rising]

Rotation and timing is something I see a lot. Which ties into skills like inner release or unchained. There was that whole xeno interview that went into a lot of the issues with the job.

And as I've said a thousand times, there is nothing wrong with asking for changes or for more information. But there is something wrong with dragging down others, acting as if no other job can get changes just because they are "better off", and just in general being rude to people who would still like to see changes to their job. Trying to downplay issues people do have simply because "we're better off" is equally rude as someone saying you shouldn't complain about DRK just because "it's got a bunch of world firsts".

There is debate in the community about that as well. There are alot of people who take Xeno's word as gospel, which may or may not be correct. People are allowed to debate the merits of what is or is not said. Just as some people do not like the warrior rotation, many really like it, both get a voice. As far as it is too hard, it definately is still inflexible when they die... but that isn't unique to warrior. Warrior has alot of benefits in its kit in terms of timing in its kit for optimizing as well.

It's condescending and rude to have all of your issues shoved aside simply because success has been found is it not? So don't do the same to other jobs please.

I would say its no better than painting the picture that warrior is this forgetten class which has gotten no attention since the beginning of the expac and is just being terrorized by other players playing different jobs. Once again, I wait for notes for what the changes are, and I hope for some real adjustments to dark knight. I'm very interested in what is actually changing in the warrior class that isn't a buff.

[Tegernako]

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1. Not going to disagree with you. It goes without saying that it's just an opinion.

2. Absolutely, I agree.

[shao32]

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you are right and correct on being polite is the right way but is a hot debate too, its been 6 months with the same threatment to us and if you add WARs being op 2 years on top of that its normal ppl get angry against WARs.

WARs are getting too much and others nothing, its easy think "f*** *** WARs" right now, even if you made you suggestions and being educated its not the right moment to talk about get "more" stuff for WARs bcs it will be like add more wood to the fire even if it's not you intetion.
Im a very patient person and even i im really tired about WARs more after heavensward.

All being said they will get more love thats a fact, the thing is, will be come with DRK love or not? And im pretty sure if is no many ppl will be get pretty angry against SE and by addiction WARs.