SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[Namingwayfinder]

Snip

I completely agree with you, and the title of the thread, and every other WAR main that has the general opinion of, "WAR is good the way it is, leave it alone and focus on other tanks. I mean, I've got all 3 tanks at 70, and DRK is the only one that I just feels weaker and far more punishing to not have mastered. Maybe that's because my play time with the class is less than it is with WAR and PLD and I just need to play the class more.

For anyone who has read Chrono_Rising's DRK threads, he brings up valid points about their cooldown times, and the doubleweaving issues that cause a lot of hassle for people trying to get into DRK past just getting to 70. They need far more attention now that WAR and PLD are roughly on the same level, and I think it's a shame that DRK hasn't seen at least some changes by now.

Speaking of which, does anyone else find it amusing that the world first DRK on Ultimate pretty much just said, "I like DRK because I find it fun." That's the kind of person I want doing world firsts, not the min/maxers who seethe and spit venom at the idea of a WAR staying in Defiance or a PLD staying in Shield Oath for more than the first 30 seconds of a fight. Props to that DRK for being awesome.

TL;DR: WAR is fine, its simplicity makes it a very cut and dry, but efficient tank. Fix DRK, world first means nothing in terms of balance.

[Namingwayfinder]

Snip

I think in the case of Shake It Off, you are correct, it is MUCH stronger than Divine Veil. but PLD has Clemency, Sentinel, Tempered Will (if anyone still even uses it), Sheltron and Intervention. While WAR has, well, Shake It Off. So on one hand I can see why it's so strong, considering WAR is like the Monk of tanks, it's a rather "selfish," if you will, tanking class. TL;DR: They only have one real utility ability for the party, which to me is fine, considering their very self sustaining kit.

[Galgarion]

Spent the weekend finishing up leveling my pally job. Couldn't jump back to warrior fast enough when I was done. I hate as a Paladin having to choose between self-healing and personal dps and I like fell cleave better than holy spirit. Both jobs have the same number of combos and OGC, so there's no added complexity there. I guess I just prefer looking after myself, and smashing stuff with an axe. Paladins just don't do it for me.

@Namingway Personally, I'd take innerbeast over shelltron. Shelltron's a one-and-done. Way too easy to squander, compared to beast.

[Tegernako]

I mean, on one hand the War buffs only exasperated the issues with DRK. Whether the buffs were good/bad/needed/not needed is a different topic, the fact is they happened. And by happening they put DRK in an objectively worse spot. It's a bit of a slap in the face when War get's buffed/fixed almost immediately yet DRK's have been illustrating their probs for months, only to see - yet again - War will be getting "usability" adjustments.

So, IMO the hostility is understandable, if not outright warranted, given the way the devs have seemingly handled the situation. What else do DRK have to do to get noticed?

Now I don't necessarily think taking it out on other Wars is a good use of their time or energy, but as far as I can see - the gloves are off. Don't be standing in the way when DRKs start swinging

I've always liked you. This is exactly why.

[Tegernako]

All three of the tanks jobs have and still do regularly get slammed for asking for things.

I was just exaggerating to make a point lol

[Tegernako]

lol... When you ask for something on war:

When you ask for something on DRK:

It's true that asking something for one class does not exclude other classes from getting changes/you wanting changes for them as well...but man I'm so confused as to what SE is doing with DRK.

TL;DR: WAR is fine, its simplicity makes it a very cut and dry, but efficient tank. Fix DRK, world first means nothing in terms of balance.

I'm still learning rotations for warrior lol what about the class is cut and dry if you want to be somewhat on par with PLD?

*edit, oh my god triple post. I'm a dummy.

[Aana]

Yeah but what I mean is, once you figure out the fight, you'll do the same thing every single time you do the fight with a Warrior. It's not like with Bard where you have to be on the lookout for surprise procs.

I mean yeah, coming up with the most efficient rotation might be fun at first, but it eventually makes playing Warrior kinda boring. Maybe they'll fix that with the next patch.

This is true of every job that doesn't have an 'rng' element that affects their rotation (Brd, Rdm for example) or deals with RNG from other players like healers (did the monster crit the tank? Needs different cure. Did stupid DPS stand in the fire? Guess I have to cure more. Etc).

That's not a 'problem' with war. That's a design choice of this game as a whole. Healers are the only role that are routinely fluid and that's only due to interacting with players more than monsters. Most DPS and tanks are in the same boat when it comes to single target raid bosses with only miniscule amounts of RNG like shield swipe, but as an OGCD it doesn't touch your rotation. Rdm is probably the most 'rng' based class. Mch is up there. But jobs like Sam and drg have zero rng. Just rotation for days.

Any class that doesn't use Proc based GCD actions is just as routine as war, drg, pld, etc.

Some love it, some hate it. But that's how it is. If you like RNG play rdm. If you don't, play drg. Etc.

[Launched]

This is true of every job that doesn't have an 'rng' element that affects their rotation (Brd, Rdm for example) or deals with RNG from other players like healers (did the monster crit the tank? Needs different cure. Did stupid DPS stand in the fire? Guess I have to cure more. Etc).

RNG isn't exactly the same on each job. BRD has 2 DoT ticks every 3 seconds for song effects and spams Heavy Shot for Straighter Shot procs, RDM uses Verthunder/Veraero every other GCD, MNK can get Meditation stacks from every GCD. WAR gets a huge chunk of damage from Fell Cleave which is a much smaller portion of WAR's GCDs/total casts. It's like flipping a coin, if you only do it 5 times you could get 4 tails but if you do it 100 times you'll probably be much closer to 50% tails. A DoT or autoattacks ticking 150+ times in a fight are probably going to have less variation between runs than a GCD used 35-40 times.

[Izsha]

RNG isn't exactly the same on each job. BRD has 2 DoT ticks every 3 seconds for song effects and spams Heavy Shot for Straighter Shot procs, RDM uses Verthunder/Veraero every other GCD, MNK can get Meditation stacks from every GCD. WAR gets a huge chunk of damage from Fell Cleave which is a much smaller portion of WAR's GCDs/total casts. It's like flipping a coin, if you only do it 5 times you could get 4 tails but if you do it 100 times you'll probably be much closer to 50% tails. A DoT or autoattacks ticking 150+ times in a fight are probably going to have less variation between runs than a GCD used 35-40 times.

Getting lucky crits/DH on FC doesnt change a single thing you DO on war. You crit? You smile. Otherwise you still hit the next button in your rotation. I can already tell you how much beast gauge Ill have and what my next combo action will on NeoExdeath's 1st grand cross is. Because its the same every time unless I screw up somehow because theres nothing RNG about what GCDs and OGCDs I'll hit. Drg can do that. Sam can do that. Rdm? nope. Blm? Nope. They have RNG elements as a part of their rotation. Proc based GCD actions. Thats the point.

Were not talking about parse/damage variation. Were talking about rotation/play variation. No one knows what will crit or wont (lolBootShine). But certain jobs could write a script to play their jobs for each fight baring mechanics that both hinder your rotation and may or may not target you.

Edit:
Lulz forgot i'm logged in as my other char at home. /wave I'm Aana.

[Inuk9]

WAR's in a nearly perfect place right now, balance-wise. But you pretty much have to play perfectly as WAR to maintain high numbers. You make one mistake and your DPS plummets. These changes will probably just make it's gameplay less nuanced and more streamlined, like DRK and PLD currently are.

yep, and WAR is not overpowered like the WAR in heavensward. I think the job is in a good spot right now. DRK needs more atention than WAR